S1E8 - José Andrés & Endless Ambition

I love food trucks because it gives the opportunity to many people to realize their own dream. Maybe that's what you and I we should do. I mean, get a big food truck and just start going around the world. Travel the world. Oh, José Andrés. Freedom! Opening in one corner in one city somewhere around the world. Oh my God. You're probably going to get a lot of mails after saying this. Hi, I'm Melina Shannon-DiPietro, the executive director of MAD. This is our new podcast, MAD Talks. For our first season, our founder, René Redzepi, who is also the chef and owner of Restaurant Noma, sits down each week with an iconic speaker from our signature event, MAD Symposium, to talk about food, creativity, and the future we hope to build. In this episode, René sits down with José Andrés, the acclaimed chef and incredible founder of World Central Kitchen, to talk about the power of food and the even greater power of the people who work with it. José Andrés, the acclaimed chef and the other. José's family, my friend. So good. Actually, here in Denmark it's spring. So, having gone through six months of terrible, terrible, terrible, but truly terrible winter. Oh my God. Winters. I like winters because it's when I do the fires and I put my terracotta pots. For me, winter is terracotta time, you know. It's fabada time. So, we've been talking so much with my wife and my children, like, you know, they keep saying, okay, what places we've not been as a family on vacation. And, man, you are up there, very high up top on the list. So, sooner or later, sooner or later, I'm going to bring all the family there. Oh, man, I can't wait for that. Then we will definitely take good care of you. It's actually unbelievable when I think of you and, you know, I think of you as a cook. I think of you as your restaurant and us hanging out at El Bulli on the last day and you running around serving food. And now, you know, you're in these situations where you're sort of part of world-changing, altering moments. Luckily for our profession, number one, a lot of people do amazing things in their communities. A lot of people, they may write one dollar check even when they don't have a dollar. They may show up to volunteer even when they don't have free time for themselves. It's big or small gestures, but to me, they are all big because they are big to every person's world. Everybody does what they can. And sometimes it's people that they do huge sacrifices to do. So, our profession, even I shouldn't be calling it professional because sometimes I think everybody I know in this business, even the people that say, I don't want to be a cook. I don't want to be a waiter. Why am I in the restaurant business? Even when we say that sometimes, I know inside everybody loves it. It's a family. It's a friendship. It's something inside that. But I'm very proud that our world, it's so, I think has always been, but in the last many years, it's been so committed to be part of the world beyond, beyond, again, our restaurants. And there's a million ways to do it. I'm very glad that I am, you know, like you, like so many others. Just one more person, you know, it's Alice Waters. I was with her. My God, this woman doesn't stop one. It's not one second she doesn't tell you. Are you buying local? Are you buying seasonal? Are you supporting your farmers? Do you know where your food comes from? I'm like, oh my God, can we talk about something else, Alice? It's amazing. It's that, can we do a school lunch for every children in America? That passion is like, it's like, it's like, and it's beautiful. And Alice Waters is the person you know, we know, I know, but there's many other people like her in every single other city around the world. So this is what we should be very proud. And that's what, what you've been in many ways. You, you celebrated from the first day you, you created MAD. That when, when, when I thought about it, another conference, this guy is mad. And I was so happy. I went finally one year and what you should be very proud because what you, your team and everybody. Thank you, José. What you created there was again, that moment that I'm a guy that doesn't like to go to meetings and conferences. I don't even like to do podcasts, even mine. But then, but then you realize that are those important moments that we all come together and we all re-energize each other. And we listen from each other and we learn things. Maybe we, we don't know which are plenty. And all of a sudden gives you a sense of I belong. I am connected to people, even I never met them. And I'm connected to people that maybe I didn't know they were doing anything at all about anything. But then you realize that shit, we are much more connected. We are a much more powerful army of goodness that we even think. And that's why I love that you created MAD in the first place. Thank you, man. And that's why you are a Matt genius. And man, you are, you're a cook of cooks. God knows it. You're making me all shy. I'm saying that we're talking about you. Because you are mad. Only a mad man could create mad. If I can go a little bit back in time, I want to know José Andrés, little school boy in Asturias. What are you dreaming about? I know you're going to be sharing this with a lot of people, but for me, it's very intimate. You and I here, we are together. And I wish we will do it more often. So when I was a little boy, I had many, many, many dreams. I, I, you know, first memories, I think I always thought about, I wanted to be a cook. I don't remember when is the moment, but was moments, moments. Watching my mother cook at home, watching my father. And I remember the first trips, like we went to this trip in a little town called Rivas, very small town. In the, in the autonomous community of Aragon. But this was a town that was important in my father's childhood. So he takes us to see this distant, distant relative, second, third uncle, but nonetheless family. I maybe was seven. And we are arriving into the town, a town that looked like this very old, old, old town in the middle of the countryside. Big, big houses, but modest houses, thick walls. And we go up to the second floor. And as we go in, that's the kitchen, which was more than the kitchen was these very big chimney with a big fire. And there is these very big iron pots and, and has a very old wooden table that was very undulated. And those beautiful tables that you see it in an antique shop and you want to pay $10,000 for the table. Even probably is not worth a hundred, but the beautiful. And there he had these big mountain of breadcrumbs and a very big knife that probably has been with him forever. Maybe his grandfather gave it to him and, and, and had this kind of table cloth on top. And you could see the table cloth was like wet. Okay. Those red crumbs is very traditional in Spain to make migas. Not to confuse with a great Mexican migas, which is more scrambled eggs like another, but, but migas bread. And he had a very big piece of bacon, uh, more fat than meat type of bacon. And he puts the bacon on the, so it starts melting in the big iron pot on top of the fire. And he began cooking the traditional migas, which are many migas in Spain, but this one was the most simple. I was my first time ever. And the last time I ate them that way. Simplicity at best use the fat melted three garlic cloves, whole, barely smashed so they will not burn, but they will give aroma. The fat ones melted. He takes the bacon out. He puts the migas, the breadcrumbs salt. And then on the same fire in a little beautiful pan with a very long handle. So he will not burn himself. He fries eggs one by one very quickly. Like in, in one minute, he did like, you know, 12 eggs. I never seen anybody cooking. And he will give us a plate. That was kind of this old metal plates that still are around. And I love put the migas, put the egg on top. And I remember eating that. I had, I had like four plates. I couldn't still to this day understand how something like was your simple, all bread with bacon fat melted. That was a slightly rancid. And he's when rancid is not even a bad thing. It's a, it's actually. It's good rancid. A very special thing that is difficult to explain why is something amazing and good. Yeah. And with that, Oh, René. That day I said, I want to learn how to do this, which I guess is the moment is like, I want to be a cook. Wow. That's beautiful. So before I went to culinary school, which I never graduated, but my life was sports, nature, cooking with my mom and my dad, I guess is what gave me the opportunity in life to say, I'm not good at anything. But let me learn a little bit about everything. But you say I'm not good at everything. But when did you know that you were good? When did you know that you were great? Because at one point you go into cooking and you end up at El Bulli. And then you go to, I mean, at one point, did you have a moment where you thought, now I'm actually good at this? Well, El Bulli obviously, of all my generation, still we kind of even have fights about who was the first one that went to El Bulli to follow the mad genius of Ferran. What happens, I was in Rosas working as a young cook when school ended in summers, we'll go there to keep learning, to make money. And I was working in this restaurant, a seafood restaurant, like the best seafood restaurant in Roses at the time, called [indistinct], where Miramar is in La Plaza San Pérez. I already had experience, I worked at Neichel, one of the great French chefs in Spain. I ate there when I was 19, in Barcelona. At two-star Michelin. Neichel was the chef of El Bulli before Ferran became a chef of El Bulli. I worked at Neichel during my time in the school. I worked at Reno, which was one of the great... I've been there too. ...Catalan restaurants of the time in the upper part of Barcelona to set the street. On the weekends, I would go to conventions and I would be hired in the restaurants to make volumes. So I would go from, you know, working in Reno, working in Neichel, to then on the weekends to work, making 2,000 people in a... So for me, also, that was fascinating. That one thing and the other, they were not... They were the same. In one, you were doing volume the best you could, in the other you were doing... But for me, those were important experiences. But obviously, Nachel, they were preparing me for... The mad genius. The mad genius. And then one day, Ferran, and I remember he loved to eat gambas al ajillo. But the good gambas al ajillo, the gamba roja, the reddest rim that came to Palamós, that comes to Dénia, that Quique Dacosta does. I know there's the wonders, but the Rosas also had their fishing boats coming with the same 'gamba roja'. And I will imagine, a garlic shrimp with that gamba roja. Wow. No, I can't imagine. And he loved that. And he loved that. And it's the first time, kind of, I say hi to him. But then, I was able to be invited by the mother of a friend who they own, a cafeteria there in the same square where I was working. It's called Miramar, a place that became, for me, very important in my life. Because it was home away from home. That family home is Miramar. And she invited us. They invited us to go to El Bulli, his son and myself. And I went to have a meal at El Bulli. And the first day I was off at the end of the summer. And, you know, I was like, I want to work here. It's obvious I want to work here. And that was my arrival to El Bulli. That was only two seasons, two summers. I mean, you could say it's two years, but it's two summers. Two, two. It's the days that will be open only five months. But the most fun was sometimes the beginning or even the end. Yeah. The beginning because I remember was one of the years that Ferran got this big, super freezer, the coma. Yeah. And there was amazing because with the genius of Albert Adrià, who already was working with Escribà, some of the best pastry chefs, not only in Spain, but even in France, is when we had still that cake cart. I think it was technically almost the last year of the cart. Fairly traditional cake cart, no? Yeah. El carro de postres. So following the French tradition. But following Ife à Idies was kind of almost the inspiration. The great Ife à Idies is one of the great pastry books of modern history in Spain, in France. And I remember those moments of making, working all night because we will get a bakery. And we had to work from the moment the bakery ended making bread all night. And we had to finish at 5 a.m., 6, because the bakers were coming to break their bread. So, and making all the viennoise and then bringing them to Urbuia and freezing them so we will have enough pastry preparation to begin the season. And then we'll keep filling up. So anyway, for me, this was a great moment because I was learning early on. And Ferran was learning in the process of, of systems, of, of quality, of, of making life for the cooks easier, helping us make higher quality. But, and this to me was very important in the organization. It's the first time I really saw. You felt that. This type of organization, these systems that maybe they were in place in factories, but I never seen them in a restaurant. And even Ferran, I don't think even he gives himself an upgrade for that. Even he was great at that. For me, this was the beginning. And, and I remember that season, or maybe it was the year after that a young guy, already talented, own a family restaurant in Girona came to do an internship, like all of us, like many of us. Well, and, and this guy was Chef Roca himself. And Ferran on the first days, he put him in my station. And, and there we created a big bond. He was there, you know, he could only afford to be two weeks away from his restaurant or 10 days, but was amazing. That season, when we finished, Juan gave to us, even everybody was paying. He goes, on paper, we were going to be 10, 12, but he was going to open late at night. After the last day, when we finished and everything, and we'll go to his restaurant, he did a menu for us. On paper, we were going to be eight or 10. At the end, everybody from El Bulli came and we ended up being 50, 60, which was people that were not even working there anymore because it was already late September, early October. And I remember the meal Joan Roca made for us. And there is where you see it like, Oh, this guy is going to be great. This guy is great. This guy is like, wow. And for me, you just watching that, that history of the many chefs that I work with, they are becoming chefs and owners of their own restaurants. And this is a family that is very, very strong. It's like all of us, even if we, you saw it on the last day of El Bulli. Yeah. It's like, it's something in the DNA of all of us. It's been printed in our brain, in our heart. And it's something very difficult to explain to anybody, but everybody has done their thing. Everybody has different styles, has different parts of the world in Spain, different types of restaurants, expensive. Expensive, affordable, fancy, a diner, a food house in the middle of the countryside, a luxury hotel. All that's a mother, the spirit is there. And that's probably the most beautiful things to remember that at the end, you've been with all these people, that they made you better because you were not only learning together, but you were learning from, from what they had to bring to the table. Even when, when they would recommend a dish to Ferran and that, that's a terrible idea. But that's a matter that those conversations were all good ideas because we all became better and more creative. When I went to El Bulli, it was, it was later than you. You were right there in the moment of the creation. It was like the explosion. You were in the center of everything. When I came there 10 years later, I was working in France at a three-star, having an okay time, very traditional, rough French three-star kitchen. And we were having a vacation for four days. And I accidentally read in a French magazine, a little note about a new restaurant that they had just discovered in France across the border. And so I booked a table. I went there. It was me and a chef called Sat Bains. This was in 98 and 99. Today he has two stars in England. And we went there not knowing anything. And I remember, I can't remember what, one of the waiters came to us and said, okay, we'd like you, you know, to take the menu, your chefs. And then Sat Bains, he said, yes, we'll take the menu, but we don't want the foie gras dish that's on the menu. And we don't want the one that's on the alacate either. We want something completely different. And at that time you could say things like this. And so the waiter just nodded, no problem. And then the menu started. And of course, it was one thing after the other that we couldn't comprehend. And then the foie gras dish came. And it was sauteed foie gras with a savory fig ice cream. And at that time, to have a savory ice cream with foie gras, I mean, our jaws completely dropped. And right after the meal finished, I went straight up to Ferran and I said, like you, I'd like to work here. And his answer to me in French was, c'est difficile. But, you know, c'est difficile. But I just wrote, I went home and I wrote this letter. And then two months later, I had a contract in the mail. And I went there the year after. And it was a mind bending experience. You know, people ask me about, have I done mushrooms or MDMA and whatever. You know, I say in my early days, I went to El Bulli. And in my later days, I go to Mexico. That's been my psychedelic experiences. So you were there and then you end up in America. What happened in that period? The reason I left El Bully was one of the years. Coming back, I had a meeting with Ferran. I was waiting for him. I left to call. Where is he? Because it was one hour and didn't show up. And then I go back to the bar. And then there he is. And he tells me I'm the one late. Some people make a big deal. Like he was, he fired me. But he got, he got upset. And I got upset with him. I'm the one waiting. I came from Madrid. Anyway, I think this is also the spirit of El Bulli. Let's find simple solutions to any problem. Which everybody talks about El Bulli, about all this science. And everybody forgets that the biggest contributions of El Bulli, at least to me, was when he showed us how to open a clam that was raw, but cooked, but raw. And you could take the clam and look like perfect outside and using the water to gelatinize. I mean, everybody forgets that some of the biggest contributions of El Bulli were the tomato seeds. Everybody forgets that he will find ingredients within the ingredient. That's the beauty of Ferran. Forget everything else. First thing I did when I was like, I think I have no job now. Because Ferran got upset with me. I don't know. And I go to my school, because it's the place you will go. Because what I do, I go to my school. The teacher was there. The teachers were there. And I'm like, José, do you want to go to New York? When? I'm like, next week. Like, okay, what do I have to do? How old are you? I arrived in New York in 1991. So I am 21 years old, going to 22. Speaking fluently English, of course. Not really. No. School English. I did the military service in the Navy. I went to America. And then life is history. I came for six months. I work in New York in a Spanish restaurant. I didn't like what the, good restaurant, but it's not what I was expecting. I left. I went to Puerto Rico. I went back to New York. Eldorado Petit, which was one of the legendary restaurants of Spain at the time. Catalan cuisine was the restaurant that was, and Reno was doing Catalan cuisine in a French way. Eldorado Petit was the first one was doing Catalan cuisine, Catalan cuisine. Eldorado Petit was mythical. Lluís Cruañas was, is no longer with us. He was a beautiful person. He opened in New York. I spent some time with him, but things were not working out in the restaurant for different reasons. The, yeah, the son of the owner was in charge. Good guy, good guy, but, but was not a father. And, and I felt it's no more for me here. Um, I, I, I went to work. I left the restaurant, uh, at the end of service one day for a story for another moment, uh, was the right thing to do though, because I was standing principles about how to treat people in the kitchen. And, and I left, and was one guy called Barry wine, who will come sometimes for lunch and sit in the bar and have some of the traditional Catalan dishes we were making at the time. Modernized, but very traditional. No, no modernized, but modernized in the new way of how you can modernize, no, the controlling the, the, the, the cooking temperatures, but traditional, very traditional flavors. And I went to Barry wine to the will to you rough. You rough. You rough. You rough at the time was probably. The most cutting edge restaurant in America, but Barry Wine was this amazing American that brought them American cooking, but with Japanese sensitivity or, or Japanese sensitivity with whatever that meant. But this is the first time I ate a Matsutake that was simply grill in front of the table and use with a little bit of salt that was flown in from Japan. And I think, and I'm like, scratching your head. Okay. Grill, grill, with no oil and use salt. I'm like, really? Give me a fucking break. Well, that was amazing. The chef was amazing, but that restaurant besides was one of the restaurants that was pure minimalism in cooking in ways I didn't even see anywhere. For me, it was very important. It was the most organized restaurant past in the history. Everything will be by the time. The waiters will be in the kitchen when the chef told you next round, 11, 21, 30. And you had their numbers and everybody. I've never seen a better mechanics of firing and having every, so you will know how much longer you need it for the foie, how much you need it for reheat the confit of that. And everything will be. And so the chef will not put anything in the oven until if everything had to be at 12 o'clock, everybody will put the things and cook. Depends if you need it five minutes, four minutes, three minutes or two minutes. Everybody only will operate that way. It was so organized. I was blown away. It was like, oh my God, this was the closest thing to artificial intelligence in a kitchen I've seen before anybody was talking about artificial intelligence. So for me, that was great. They offered me to stay there, but, but me, I needed to leave New York. New York was an amazing place for me. Imagine as a young cook, right? It's like when you went to Mexico first. For me, New York was the biggest food university in the world. I could eat around the world without moving from Manhattan, René. And that's why I began, you began learning that traveling the world, learning new cultures, learning new ingredients. I always tell people study business because if you study business, you're going to be freeing yourself from making sure that you depend only of yourself and not of others. Study business, be good at numbers. You don't need to be talking numbers. You can be creative, but make sure you are not a fool. Learn business. And I will say shit. Travel the world. Visit as many markets you can. Eat in as many street places you can. When you have money, go to the high-end restaurants of those places because it will be the best investment you do if you want to be a cook. Just travel the world. Study business and travel the world. Because you can learn cooking, reading, buying the ingredients in the market if you are good and persistent and doing it at home. So with that, I don't mean people should not go to school. I'm only saying that it's a new way of learning that can be much more powerful than going following the traditions. Maybe for some people it's good to go to school. We are not all created equal. But if somebody there feels like the school is not something, it's fulfilling them. I don't want them to feel guilty. I don't want them to feel they are not normal. I only want them to feel that, well, maybe school is not for you. But life is in the school itself. Take advantage of the school of life. So use the freedom of your young years because that's what makes you rich. Do you feel like having more freedom? I don't have more freedom now. I am realizing that. I don't. It's not all bad. It's not all bad. I don't have more freedom because you take on responsibilities because you want. You have the freedom to choose what you want to do. But because you choose, life takes freedom away from you. So I'm sure I can do whatever I want. I can. I mean, that's a moment in my life. I can say, okay, I'm taking six months and I'm traveling the world and I'm eating. I'm eating. I'm not doing it because I can't because I have responsibilities. I have the freedom to make that decision. I make it when I went to Ukraine. I dropped everything, you know, family. And I spent almost 200 days in Ukraine. Wow. Because for me, that was important. I had a call to do that. I had to do that. When I went to Puerto Rico and I disappeared for a hundred days, I had to be there because I felt it was important because people were hungry and I didn't see anybody else doing it. So it's like, let's do it with amazing Puerto Rican ships. So still we all have that freedom to do something. But when it's normal life, normal situation, to don't repeat ourselves. When you are young, do it. Like you did, go. Do it, do it. Because riches is the freedom and time you have to do whatever you want. So do it when you are young, you have the energy, you have the freedom. Yeah. And, and if you're going to go broke, go broke on the learning of that you can do in your life. Yeah. Just go to a restaurant, but also go to, you know, our love for Mexico. Remember a moment changed. I have a Mexican restaurant. I'm very proud. I say, I don't open restaurants as business. I open restaurants for me to tell a story of the people and things I see. And my story of Mexico was my story of love. I love it. I remember this place outside, uh, in one of the little towns in Oaxaca, in the Oaxaca Valley after we visit Monte Albán. And, and was this woman with this basket of, uh, pumpkin flowers. I, I, I forgot the type of pumpkin because when we say pumpkin flowers is so many different flowers and everyone is different. And what's so beautiful. It was the perfect photo. It looked like unreal how beautiful it was. And this old woman, probably in her late seventies with this comal, uh, open fire. And, and she was making these tortillas big and she was making quesadillas with the soft cheese, break it with her hands and then the squash. And then she will with it with water. She will seal the border. And then the tortilla, the squash blossoms will kind of steam inside that when you eat it, almost the, the use of the water of the flowers releasing some of the water inside was kind of a sauce in a microwave. You will say it's imperfect, but actually it was. And I remember you putting the quesadilla up my, and getting those drops of water. Like it was the raindrops and that water. Oh, so I remember the moment. It's like, Oh my God, this is, this is life. And life can be beautiful and life can be tasty all at once. I was learning, I was experiencing. And, and, and it's those moments that they're not going to be happening in a school. They're not going to be happening in your kitchen. You know, you talk about this call. You felt a call to, to go to Ukraine, to go to Puerto Rico. I'm curious to know, let's imagine a world where you didn't go to America because America did something to you. It made you more or different. Is it being in America and sort of fusing two cultures that made you think bigger? You think? Yeah. Yeah. Probably is what happened when you went to work to France and then when you went to work to Spain. So what did America mean to you as a person? I love many of the ideas that America stands for. And still I think it's the same America that is evolving. I mean, the world is not a perfect place, but the world is full of people that are working towards make a place better. We need to realize that. Life is not dream a fantasy where everything is perfect. Life is full of things that you work through them and in the process you learn and you become better. For me, America was that. America is a melting pot of so many cultures for the last, for the last 500 years. And that has made America the country it is today. A country where it's full of people, creativity, and even if some people right now is portraying this as a bad thing, it's people that they are afraid of their own shadow. Because we are all, all a mix of cultures through centuries, if not thousands of years, we like it or not. That's the way it is. And that's the way it will be. So for me, America was this place that just enriched me, that made me learn from so many people. That the ideals of America, the we, the people, it's three words that are part of the creation of America and they are so meaningful. We, the people. Not I, the person, we, the people. We are only as good as the people we have around us. And we may think we make them better, but every one of them makes us better. And, and I always say, René, that I believe life starts at the end of your comfort zone. Life, what is really exciting is when you get on the backpack and you get on a bus, on a train, and you go. And you go to a place you are not comfortable anymore. A place that, that maybe you don't communicate because the language is different. Or a place that they don't have the same religion where you grow up. Or a place that the people look different than you look. Or a place that is used different to anything you know. But I, I believe that we need to make sure that we tell people, don't be afraid of that. But celebrate that. Because that's what is going to make you a better person. A person that understands. So yes, for me, America was that place. I want to give reasoning to some people that say, oh, it's too many immigrants coming to our town. No, it's too many. I get it. I get it. Because me, when I go back to Spain now, I realize sometimes, Asturias is like, I like my fabada asturiana. One of the most iconic bean stews in the world. Very simple, but full of, and if all of a sudden now is a Peruvian restaurant opening next to the, and now they are doing ceviches. I'm like, what the heck? Now why do they do ceviches? Ceviches are not traditional here. This is the first thing that comes to my mind. But then I'm like, hold on a second. Hold on a second. I have a, I'm in Spanish and I have a Mexican restaurant in Washington, DC. Hold on a second. And at the end it's like, what? I'm going to eat fabada every single day of my life. Obviously local is important. Obviously seasonal is important. Obviously. And certain traditions of certain countries are important. But then I go back to Cocido Madrileño and all the Cocidos in Spain, all the big stews, the big pots, where you put the vegetables, the water, the meats. And we have many in Spain, as you know, the world has, but Spain is very known for different types of the big pots, the Cocidos. And I remember one day I did a Cocido Madrileño, but I put yuca and I put mandioc and I put sweet potatoes. Oh my God. When I had my TV show in Spain and I had a lot of people and what are you doing? And then I began thinking it like, hey man, right now you are celebrating that you put potatoes and you're very happy with those potatoes because that's the tradition of today. But 500 years ago was no potatoes. So at one moment, somebody maybe was thinking like you, why are you putting potatoes? So it's so funny how you don't realize that the traditions of today were modernity in the past and the modernity of today will be tradition tomorrow. What happened in the real moment, we don't see it that way sometimes. Yeah, for sure. But you said you touched upon it yourself. You're an immigrant to a country. And, you know, my family there are Albanians. Even though I'm born here, I spent most of my life living between two countries, actually thinking that I was more Albanian, that I was Danish. And how do you, what do you feel like today? Are you Spanish? Are you American? Do you feel like you belong to a place? I think we all need to find a place that we belong. We all need to belong to a place. Especially, it's better to belong to different places. When we have a world full of people that they feel they belong to more than one place. I do believe that this creates a better world. Because you want, in my case, I want America to do well. And I want Spain to do well. Therefore, people like you, people like myself, that we believe we belong to more than one place. We are people that help build bridges. It's not like everything, everything good for America or everything good for Spain. No. What is good for me must be good for you. That's why I love to be in love, to know places like Mexico that I love. Also, it's a place I feel at home. Or Puerto Rico is a place I feel at home. Wow. All of a sudden, I feel at home in four places. Wow. This is great because what I want for Mexico, I want for America. What I want for America, I want for Spain. And all of a sudden, what is good for you must be good for me. But then, I want you, I will have other chefs like me, which is you or any other, who they're going to be talking about the place they live as the best place in the world. Because we are building bridges. So, yes, it's okay to feel you belong to more than one place. Actually, it's not okay. It should be that way. And if you only love one place because you're, it's okay to only make sure that you are open-minded to welcome the ones coming to visit your town or to visit your country. But again, I think the best can happen in the world. If I was president of the United Nations, I will write a mandatory check to every young person under 21 or under 18, whatever, to make sure that they travel the world during three, six months of their lives. And that way, I have a feeling we'll be less worse, we'll be more peace, we'll be more understanding. We will all have more respect to each other, more dignity to each other. And I, that's the world I believe in. And I know that's the world you believe in. I'll say, when I listen to you, and of course, I know your story. And, you know, you've just, there's a new, you have a new memoir out, you're just put up on Chef Table Legends. So, so people are really getting to know you besides the fact that we've been reading about you and you've gone from a small town in Asturias and you have a really well thriving restaurant company. You have this nonprofit that's feeding millions of meals every year in real hotspot areas. You are on TV, you have a wife, you have daughters, you, you've done everything. What do you dream of? Well, we spoke about time before. Now is the time to enjoy it all. And I'm 55. I'm going to be 56 this year. But still, I feel very young. You learn that obviously taking care of our health. I think our profession, we've been talking a lot about the good things that our profession does, but also, you know, the hard things that our profession does, right? The long hours that our profession needs, the sacrifice time away from our children, our family. You know, those things are real. They're not good or bad, but in some instances they can be bad. We need to live with them. It's the way it is. But all this learning is how we can make it. How can we make it better? How can we improve it? Understanding that running restaurants is the most crazy business profession in the world. The number of failures in the restaurant business is astonishing. That's why I said at the beginning, study business, study business, study business. Because our profession is wonderful, but you need to make sure you don't go broke in the process of pursuing your dream. But when you tell me where I look, you know, this year, 30 years married to my wife. You use, it's not, this is not about finding a wife or husband or a partner, or this is about finding your, your friend in life, right? Invest time on that. I think she invested more time than me on our relationship. I'm lucky. Sometimes somebody is more giving than the other. Sometimes one of the two is, is the way it is, it's very different, difficult to be equal, but try to. In my case, maybe I've been more selfish. I've been doing more the, the things I dream I wanted to do. And, and she, and she's been always supportive of what I wanted to do. So what I was doing was her too. It's not like I did it. We, we did it. But still, I want to have a three star Michelin. You know, I, I know it's a lot of people that says, Oh, Michelin is over or like, not really. Because I was a young kid where I couldn't afford to Michelin restaurants that I will walk in front of the restaurant only to wait for the moment the door open. So I could look inside. I remember when I went to Freddie Girardet, I didn't eat. And I had cash. Legendary chef from Switzerland. And I spent the money in buying his book in the shop he had outside, in Crissier. He had the restaurant and he had a little place next door that you could buy, you know, mymeralades and, and his book and other things. And I met, uh, Rochelle was his chef at the time. And I remember he let me go into the kitchen after service in the back. And for me was like, Holy cow. And for me, that was like, well, I don't know why I'm telling you that, but, but, but, but what I want to do is make sure obviously that I have a three star. That I work with my, not so much for me, but for my teams too. Uh, that I, one day, maybe we can be one of the 50 best or whatever is the next guy that shows up. It's good to have things that makes you work towards excellence. You may get it or you may not get it, but it's good to have things that you aim for. It's good. It gave me when I was a young boy, the reason of why I wanted to be in this profession, why I wanted to be better. And I know right now is young children too, that, that they want that on top of, they want to be a René Redzepi. They want to be Albert Adrià. They want to be Quique Dacosta. They want to be, but also many people will tell you, I would like to be the best in the world. That's great. Let's, let's celebrate that. It's not a bad thing. It's a, it's obviously amazing thing. At the end, I was, I tell people that the only food critic, actually the main food critic, you need to respect more than anyone else is yourself. Because you can lie to everybody, but you cannot lie to yourself. You are the only one. If you are giving your best, if you're working hard enough to become better, you are the one you can, you cannot lie to yourself. So, so you need to respect yourself because you're going to be your toughest self critic. And you need to listen to yourself. Sometimes sometimes we don't listen to ourselves. And, and that's what I've been doing all the, all my life. It's like, when I go to the restaurant, sometimes my, my chef, I mean, once, well, José, you are very hard with, with all of us. You, when you come, you only say it's all negative. I'm like, well, I'm sorry. You're right. I think we've been together for a long time. Actually is my restaurant too. It's not only yours. It's mine too. Right? So if I'm saying this, the beach, we can do better. Just don't take it as a good or bad. Don't take it as bad criticism. Do you think can be better? And then the chef's army. Yes. So, so I'm not being negative. I'm, I'm being honest with myself and I want you to be honest with yourself. I'm not saying you are not doing good work. I'm not saying you are not working hard. I'm only saying, can this be better? And if you say yes, and I know you can, I'm only asking you to be the best version of yourself, but it's not on you. It's on me too. Cause I'm a team. I'm, I'm with you. I cannot be there every day. You are, but I was there before you. And I will ask myself always the same question. Can this be better? Can this be a little bit better? And, and we all, uh, and obviously people need praise and, and obviously needs that, but, uh, I'm not giving excuses. Sometimes I can be that, uh, what I try to explain to everybody around me is like, when I'm saying this, I'm not saying it to you. I'm saying it to me, but you are in my team. And you're team. So take it as, can this be better? And if the answer is yes, it's like, okay, so we have more work to do. Uh, so I want to be that I want to become the best version of myself too. Uh, I wanna, um, I want to make sure that we are together maybe, uh, and then world hunger. And I know right now seems like an impossibility, but, but it is, will be so cheap to end hunger in the world. Will be so easy to do if all the countries of the world use will come in a moment that seems everybody is invested more in weapons. And I'm a guy, I believe every country needs to defend themselves because we only need one bad human to destroy and create chaos. So I don't want to say now let's buy weapons, but I wish we will spend less weapons. The place will be a more peaceful place. Still, the countries will be able to defend themselves, but that we will put just 1% of all the, the budgets of the world that goes towards buying arms and weapons. With that 1%, we end hunger tomorrow. I don't know if we will achieve it, but I do believe we can in the next 25, 30 years. Yes. Because it's easily doable. It's simply doable. That would be a dream. Oh, wow. Andrés, I mean, three Michelin stars and world hunger. You're, you're in your mid fifties. Listen, where do you get the energy from? Honestly, like what's going on with you? Watching people like you, uh, putting menu, menu, menu, season after season, menu after menu, uh, dish after dish. And what the, what this guy, what this guy was smoking when he came up with this shit there. But sometimes we need to remember the people that don't have a restaurant in a building with a bathroom and, and they're in the street. Sometimes it's because they cannot afford anything else. And their lives are a little bit harder than other people. That's why I love food trucks. The food trucks has been the best way that young cooks that wanted to have their own business. Could have a thing that they could afford that is mobile. So food trucks has been a great, a great way in that it still is expensive. I mean, uh, a good food truck can be very expensive, but I love food trucks because it gave the opportunity to many people to realize their own dream. Maybe that's what you and I, we should do. I mean, get a big food truck and just start going around the world. Travel the world. And just go to 20, 30, 40 cities in one year, opening in one corner, in one city, somewhere around the world. Oh my God. You're probably going to get a lot of mails after saying this. José, um, listen, um, I have one final question and, um, you know, we're about to do our mad symposium again. And this year we are, we calling it built to last. And it's about, you know, thinking cleverly about the future, planning wisely, thinking ahead. And so one of the questions that we ask all the people on the podcast is if you imagine 20, 30 years from now, an old José Andrés and a world as well. What can we do today for 20, 30 years from now to be in a place where, you know, you have three stars and we have ended world hunger? What, what is, what is, what can we all do today to plant that seed that makes things so much better 20, 30 years from now? Because we should be able to do whatever we want in 30 years. So I believe food without a doubt is the most important energy in the world. In a moment, we are talking about solar and nuclear and wind and these fights about which one is better. And, and I would say, I think they are all good. Just diversify because this is bad. We are about to be doing something amazing with, not with fusion, not nuclear, but with fission, where all of the sun is going to be a much more controlled scenario with the nucleus. And we're going to have probably in the next 20, 30, 40, 50 years, the cleanest energy in the history. And this is going to be a huge advance for humanity. And I think we are about to break that already. It's very good movement in that direction. We're going to see in our lifetime, a very big breakthrough on energy. And this way should be celebrated. But for me, the most important source of energy in the world is the food. We feed humans. And when you think about it, the question is, do our governments and our leaders put food high up in their priorities? And the answer is no. When a president is running for election, they don't talk about food. They talk about everything else. They don't talk about how to feed. Nobody does. Food is the most important thing we have in our lives that nobody talks about. I mean at the levels of government and at the levels of leadership. And this is a problem, but then it's an opportunity. So you tell me what we have to do today to dream of 30 years from now. That's why I created the Global Food Institute, which seems like a crazy idea, but we are trying to develop the policies that every country in the world may bring to their countries and their programs to make food part of the solution. Today, the same food that gives energy to humans is making humans obese. In a moment that we have part of the world that is going to bed hungry, we have another part of the world that is going to bed overweight and unhealthy. And we only need to be asking ourselves, what do we do about it? How we can make sure that the hungry are not hungry and the unhealthy are not healthy. We are spending trillions of dollars in fixing humans. Because the way we eat and our lifestyle, heart attacks, high blood, hypertension. Oh my God, the same food is going to supposed to be making us healthier. It's making us unhealthy. Instead of investing money in people and it created better schools and better roads and better airports, we're spending the money in having to fix the people in the way we are living. On that note, José Andrés, I'm going to stop you because we will be speaking for 19 hours. And the podcast is on this. Oh my God, we've been like so long. That's great. We've been so long. I can tell you, I would trust you with anything about our food system. Thank you so much for taking the time. You are a hero to me, to so many people. I aspire to be, even have the slightest of your energy going forward. So I want to add you the final, I have it in the room next door. Maybe I bring it with me when I go see you. But Brillat-Savarin in 1826, the French philosopher that I think we don't read enough, he said, tell me what you eat and I'll tell you who you are. That phrase, it's so wonderful. But he had a more important one. He said, the future of the nations will depend on how they feed themselves. Let's make sure that food policy becomes one of the biggest priorities in every government in the world. Let's make sure that food stops becoming the problem and food becomes the solution of many of the problems humanity faces. In the moment that happens, the world is going to be a much beautiful place. And we only need to start with one of your amazing creations. One plate of food at a time is the solution for a better tomorrow. Wow. José Andrés, gracias, gracias. Thank you. I'll cook fabada for you and migas. Yes. Love you, my friend. Love you. Bye-bye. Life starts at the end of your comfort zone. That's an invitation from José to all of us to dare to do more. Thanks for listening to MAD Talks. This episode concludes our first season, but we'll be back soon with more fascinating conversations. This podcast was produced by Sidsel Kaae Nørgaard and made by MAD. To learn more about us and our work within hospitality, make sure to follow us on socials @themadfeed. Sign up for our newsletter, or check us out at madfeed.co.