S1E6 - Ron Finley & Sowing Resistance

But that's why people call you, because you have that. They know that if you're around, things will keep moving. Yeah, but they don't call me. They don't call me with the big checks, René. They don't call me with those big ass checks that they're giving these other people. No, I think the big checks, you probably entered the wrong industry there. Right. Guerilla gardening. Hi, I'm Melina Shannon-DiPietro, the executive director of MAD. This is our new podcast, MAD Talks. For our first season, our founder, René Redzepi, who is also the chef and owner of Restaurant Noma, sits down each week with an iconic speaker from our signature event, MAD Symposium, to talk about food, creativity, and the future we hope to build. In this episode, René speaks with Ron Finley, an activist and true force of nature. They talk about why access to healthy food is a human right and why growing your own is the key to it, even when you have to break the law to do it. Good morning. How are you doing, René? I'm doing well. How are you, man? Beautiful, beautiful. Woke up this morning. Yeah, right. That's beautiful. Just waking up is beautiful. A lot of people don't see it like that. Some people are like, and that's like, people say, is that what you're going to say all the time? I'm like, yeah, because that's what I've done today. It's like, that's that you sure set the bar low. I'm like, the bar don't get no higher than you waking up in the morning. How was the world when you were growing up? It was, you know, it's, it's funny, because you, you know, you live in a certain neighborhood, and everybody around you is basically in the same kind of economical situation. So, so, you know, you didn't see yourself as being poor. You know, you didn't see yourself as, as not really having stuff. A lot of times when you traveled somewhere, when you went to another neighborhood, even my friends, when I went, you know, a few blocks this way, a few blocks that way, I'm like, damn, why do, why do we live on this, on this thoroughfare street when these people live in, on this neighborhood street that has trees and shit like that? It's like, you know, but, but it was, I mean, it was, it was the same thing, you know, it was, but it wasn't like this. I don't, I don't remember being depressed and behind, you know, where I lived and how I lived and, but you don't, because that's the, that's the thing, René, you're a child. So you don't realize how fucked up shit is. You don't realize that you're not getting the education that you're supposed to, because you're a child. You don't realize that you're not getting the services. But I mean, I think the difference was there was so many Black entrepreneurs and businesses around you that it was kind of self-sustaining. And I think that helped a lot. When you grew up, what, what, what was food? How did food look like to you? In the 1800s when I grew up, René. Back in 1921. I mean, we, we, we had food and it was cooked every day. You, you asked me that question, made me think of when I was in junior high school, I used to walk by the, the, what would, what they call it? The home ec class, you know, and, and I, they put the pies in the window to, you know, like the, to cool off and stuff. And I walked by and I smelled these beautiful pies and cookies. And, and I went to the counselor and she says, and I told her, I said, I want to take the cooking class. Cause you know, I was getting my clothes all messed up in print shop and everything. And she, and she said, you can't because that's for girls. And I don't know where the hell I pulled this from René, but I said, well, aren't most men chefs? I don't, I mean, where does, I mean, I'm what, 10, I don't know, 11. And she said, you know, you're, yeah, you're right. And, and I, they started at this school, at this junior high school in South Central Los Angeles, they started a boys cooking class because I wanted hot German chocolate cookies, you know, and spaghetti and meatloaf. And literally just imagine that was a paradigm shift that has a child. I had no idea that that was, I had no idea the power that that had. And that this one, that it, it fell on the ears of this one beautiful soul that said, yeah, we need to change this shit. And cause that had never been, it was like, the girls take this and the boys take shop. You have that inquisitive, you ask questions, you're unafraid. And even at 10, you're like, Hey, is that, that's just followed you all your life. My superpower was the fact that I'm dyslexic as hell. So I, I didn't do good in their school. And, and now I get to go and speak at teachers conferences. And a lot of times I, I would start, say, don't take this personally, but fuck your standardized education. Cause nobody's standard. We're all custom. You teach a child the way they learn, not the way you teach, but you know that you, but you have to, you have to do this because the system tells you, this is how they have to learn. And so you, there's a lot of people missing. So I had to question, I, as I, my new thing, I, I tell these kids, I said, you know, think wrong. Don't think right. Think wrong. Cause what they're teaching you is garbage. They're there. It's not education. You know, it's indoctrination. You know, I, you know, I, I've left schools, elementary schools, René, and literally shit. I'm about to cry like a baby, man. Cause I see these, these brilliant little kids, you know, and you know where they're going to wind up because of the, they're not telling them. Nobody's telling them that you are the single most valuable, the most beautiful, the most precious thing on this planet. You know, cause nobody tells these kids that it's always have, if you had this and if you have this, that means you're, you know, you're rich and you're this. And, and I tell these kids, you can't eat no fucking diamonds. You know what, what you got, the apocalypse happens, earthquakes, the volcanoes, you got a bag of diamonds, you got a bag of carrots and you got some real carrots. Which one has more value? Period. You know, so it's, it's like, these are the lessons that I'm trying to pass on to that. I wish somebody would have given me. How did this all come to be? I mean, because what you, what you have in you, in this, you know, you keep pushing, you keep wanting to change things. Where does this come from? Is there a specific moment that, that fuels you? I think it's, I think it's innate. I mean, it's like, why don't tell me what I can't do. Don't tell me this ain't possible. It's just like, I don't, I don't like people telling me something can't be done. My thing is just like, and I'm sure you had the same shit, right? I thought about it. That means it can be done. Right. Yeah. If you think it, there is a possibility. Yeah. Hey, when you, when you started the gardening, you started planting the front yards. Yeah. Tell us about that. What happened? I didn't even think about it, but I was going to the stores and I remember having this, this tomatoes and they were wrapped in plastic and one that had a sticker on them says, may contain, may be coated with shellac. Delicious. And that took me back to junior high school. And I'm like, cause we used to shellac the wood after we build cabinets and stuff, we would shellac the wood to put, you know, to coat it and preserve it. And I'm like, I'm cool. I don't need no shellac on my tomatoes. And I think that was one of the final things. I mean, I had, you know, the whole, I stopped eating McDonald's years and years and earlier, you know, just hearing the stuff. And that I think took me over the edge and, and I, um, I started planting my parkway. And the first time I did it, I got an arrest warrant issued for me because it was illegal. And then. But who does that? Who like says, Hey, check out Ron. He's doing something illegal. Somebody must've said something. There was a hater. There was this elderly woman down the street, you know, that cause my, my, my front yard was getting a lot of attention. I guess she was jealous. I don't know. But I mean, I, I think I'm thankful that she did. Um, so I started an organization that we, we would just do gardens for free for anybody in South Central who wanted them. Um, and, um, I literally wound up leaving, uh, organization that I started because, know, the dynamics change, you know, it's, I didn't care, you know, people, Oh, they had, they have a Mercedes. I'm like, I don't care what the fuck they're in the hood. It's like, I don't, I don't care what kind of guy. I'm not the government out of, if they want a garden and they're going to maintain it, we're going to put it in for free. And, uh, I realized real, real quickly that free ain't free. Free is not sustainable. And free has, sometimes it doesn't have value to people because it's free. Yeah, sure. You know, in a garden. And then, so that's, that's kind of how it started, man. And, and it, I, I told a friend, uh, that I wanted to, he was, he was doing gardening. I said, man, you should, should, we should get together and do this. And he said, no, man, I'm just, I'm gonna keep DJing. I don't want to, and I'm like, I said, well, I'm about to fuck this game up. And, um, it literally started with that, you know, where, where has, I got another arrest, I got another arrest warrant. And, um, then, um, that turned into me, uh, fighting the city, me going, going to Ted and me putting the city on blast. And for people that don't know what a food desert is, can you try to explain the term food desert? In Denmark, we don't understand the term fully. Can you explain why and what, you know? They have them all over the world. I mean, it's just a term that, uh, like in it that they can't, that's been coined. Uh, like my whole thing is I call them food prisons, not food deserts. Cause literally if you got the right techniques, you can grow food in a desert, you know, but people, the whole concept came from, there's a barren desert. So it's just barren of anything nutritious. It's just barren of, of, of substance. And that's what, um, that's what a food desert is. And for miles, you can get liquor, you know, you can get cigarettes, you can get all that. You can, you can get, uh, uh, but you can't get any healthy food. You can't get anything, anything organic. Within like a walking distance. Oh no, it's no, it's miles. Yeah. Miles, you know? So no, you can't. And so it becomes natural for people to eat this kind of food and think it's cool. Um, it's, it's interesting, right? Cause you asked me that question made me think of me speaking at Google and, you know, you know, the stickers, the barcodes on all the fruits and vegetables, you know, the nine, the four digit number, five digit number. And so I said, by the way, anybody knows what these numbers on your food and vegetables, you know, these, these stickers and people think it's tracking the food. Like, no, it ain't got nothing to do with this. That's so much. I said, y'all Google y'all supposed to be some of the smartest motherfuckers in the world. Right. And, and, and I said, so y'all should Google that shit. You know? So I was at Google and I got to tell them to Google some shit. And, you know, then we talked about it. I said, how can somebody like all of you, you know, educated folks not know what these numbers are. That's a travesty that, that. So if you don't know the average citizen definitely don't know these apples, this orange are telling I'm going to kill you. I'm sprayed with this. I have this coating on them. I'm organic. I'm bioengineered. I said that it has nothing to do with tracking. It has, it's telling you where, what's, how they were grown. And nobody knows that. So why aren't there signs in the stores, René, with these, with these stickers on them saying, okay, this is that, this, nobody knows what these, what these things, what these stickers stand for. No, I can totally see that. It's the difference between a small barcode, which is just some numbers as opposed to it being written up right in front of that item you're wanting to buy would be, would be such a difference for sure. Yeah. I mean, and to me, that's something that could be changed like this, that fast, that fast. So if you really cared. Yeah. Yeah. You can go on your phone and you put it in, it'll come up, but you're not, I'm at the store. So why can't I, why isn't there a chart right there telling me that, you know, what's going to happen? And, you know, and it's sad because I was at a, at a school and their path had boxes and boxes of apples. And this girl was like, yeah, we're giving these kids fresh food. Cause they never get it. I'm like, do you know, it's not fresh. Do you know when they were grown? I said, do you know what that sticker on it? I said, no. I said, look it up on your phone. She did like, Oh, I said, yeah. So how fresh is it? How? And I said, how healthy is it for these kids? It's telling you I contain poison. So how, so, and you're feeding it to this kid thinking that to this whole, all these kids and you thinking it's doing something for them. It's not, you know, it's a travesty. Yeah, it is. It is. And, you know, it's kind of around the world. It's not just America like that. I think parts of America is really, really, really bad in ways that we don't comprehend over here. But, you know, the way of eating is kind of westernized, that style of eating. If I can switch it over a little bit to, you know, because I was reading up on everything that you say. And when you start doing the gardens and people were opposed to it, you know, they call the police on you for growing carrots and so on. And you also talked about that you're beautifying things. And I love this term specifically, putting beauty into the world, which I think is just essential. And something that often, you know, we're not allowed to celebrate or even value when it comes to food. That beautiful things matter and makes... What does beauty mean to you? I mean, it means everything. It's just like people ask me, well, how do you go from fashion to flute? Like it's a difference. I said, that's because you've been trained to think in the box and keep and live there in that box. I said, there is no difference. There is no difference between fashion and flute. I said, where does material come from? Where does colors come from? From the earth, from Mother Nature. I said, so your compartmentalized thinking allows you to think that what I do is different. And it's not. It's all art. It's all beauty. The beauty of nature, man. The beauty of... René, when I was a child, if somebody would have told me one tiny ass seed will give you a whole tree, you do it, but nobody explains that. You see that one seed that you planted? It's going to turn into a tree. And that tree is going to have fruit. And all those fruits are going to have seeds in them. And all those seeds have the possibility to be a tree that will give you more fruit. That will give you... And so just... I mean, and imagine if somebody told you that, has a child that you want to talk about rate of return, you want to talk about interest, plant a damn tree that will give you food for 250 years. Yeah. You know, so this, you want to talk about value. Yeah. That's value to me. Yeah. When you say this, I'm thinking first day of school, all kids should plant a tree somewhere and follow it for their life, you know? And again, all of that can be done, René. It's just having people like you and us. Okay, this is what's going to happen. And this is how you people are going to pay for it. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. When we speak about these things we speak about now, I also think about time and how things that we talk about that you speak to takes more time that perhaps we allow things to take today in this kind of instant gratification moment. How do you see that going forward with your mission? Because gardening takes time, you know? Is it more difficult for people to connect to it because we're so wired on our screens? Yeah, it's more difficult for people to connect to it. But I saw what happened after my master class and how many people started growing food and started to realize, you know, you have people in their 40s that never planted nothing. Not a plant, a seed in the ground. So, and I think during COVID, they're like, oh, shit. When they saw nothing in the store and this and that, they saw that this is what I tell you. This is freedom. This is survival. You growing food, nobody could ever take that knowledge away from you. Okay. You're turning, you realize in the cycle of life, you're learning that a tree, a tree is not just a tree. You know, it's like it's a life system. And it happens the way nature works. And this is what I'm trying to expose to these kids is nature and natural system. And that's powerful because you can see where life comes from, you know, and what's real. So, no, I think now people are getting back to doing for themselves, even, I mean, cooking, making clothes, these creative things. And people are like, because we lost this. And it's like we're rushing to go where? To die. I mean, what do you, what is, oh, I'm hustling, I'm grinding. I'm like, I'm not hustling, nor am I, I'm not doing none of that shit. I'm breathing every day. Yeah. But you are fighting and you're building movement. And, you know, you start fires to, maybe that's a bad expression now that what's happening in LA. No, it's real. I think doing good. The thing is about food, it always boggles my mind. Doing good in food, wanting quality, wanting organics, regenerative, you will be punished. That you will earn less. It's just the way it is. It's harder, more difficult. The cheaper, the poorly produced, that's the stuff that you earned well. And, you know, and why is it that? I mean. I don't know. You, you, you, you a gangster in this shit, René. Okay. You's an OG. You've been doing, I mean, some of the stuff you do, I'm like, whoa. And, and it's. Who are the real gangsters? No. I mean, to me. And that's where the whole gangster gardeners came from. It's like people that build their communities, not break them down. You know, people, people that, that are assisting people, people that, that are, you know, starting new systems and bucking this bullshit system that will keep you oppressed for the rest of your life. To me, that air is like, air is gangster as fuck. You can't get no more gangster than air. You know? So it's just like, try doing without it. And, and that's, to me, that, that's what gangster is. You know? And that's why, that's why I wanted to change the vernacular of that whole gang, oh, gangster meant violence. Yeah. You know, misogyny. And like, no, this, being a, being a gardener is a gangster. Raising your spades, you know, and putting them in the ground. Let your spade be your weapon of choice. That's gangster. You know? So we can, we can change this whole system. And that, and that, that's what it, I mean, to be able, for me to be able to see people or have inspired people to like, damn, that guy's right. Maybe we should. Maybe I, maybe, you know, some of the, you know, the testimonies and letters and pictures and people to start business. Well, you know, I started this because of you. I'm like, I really don't know what the hell I'm talking about. You sure? You know, I mean, there's no way that I could have imagined that, you know, that just this message would affect people like that. You, you're a father. Oh, yes. How? Proud. Proud father. How was that? Being a father. What do you mean? How was it? It's, it's, you know, I have people say, oh, my God, it's so hard raising kids. I'm like, shut the hell up. That's because you want them to be what you want. You're not looking at them to see what they can be. You're not exposing them to things. I mean, it was, it was, it was simple for me, René, because there was no, in my household, when I, and not, not the household that I grew up in, in my household, there was no violence. There was no cigarettes. There was no alcohol. There was no beatings. There was none of that silly shit, you know? And I said, let me eliminate this and see what happens. And, and I've always told my sons, it's like, I'm not, I don't live for you. You know, I'm going to live my life. You're going to live, you live with me, but you have, you know, you got your own thing that you need to do. I don't, I want you to, my thing to them was operate from happy, period. If the shit don't make you happy, don't do it. You know, I don't want to see you in no, no situation, married. I don't want to see you in a, you know, in a job that you hate. You know, if you, I don't want to see you going to school and you, and you, and you don't want it. So I think we should, that was, that, that was the way I, you know, I raised my kids and I just exposed them to different things. I mean, I took them, I took them with me everywhere. And I would say, even in business meetings, they would, Hey, um, wow. You're so, you're, you're, you're kids. I think they're listening to what we're saying. I'm like, why the hell you think they're here? Yeah. You know? And, uh, I just wanted them expose them to things. It was simple. So I want to be the motherfucker that I wish a motherfucker was to me when I was a kid. So, and that's okay. What did I wish you would have told me? What did I wish you would have shown me? And that's what I was, man. And I'm three for three. I mean, my, my, my sons are killing the game. You know? Yeah, they are. They are. What are some of the things that you wish people would have told you? Uh, just directions, uh, just, Hey man, maybe you should do this and not do that. May, um, is it, it was just exposure to, to things, you know? Um, and because I think we, what happens in life, we fall in line, you know, cause, um, you know, instead of what do you want to be when you grow up alive, you know, let's start, let's start there, you know? Um, um, I just, a more realistic picture of what could happen instead of, you know, us growing up, man, we're going to go, we're going to work for the bus company. We're going to be a mailman. You know, we're going to get this job that you work for 30 years. And then they give you a, a ink pen, you know, uh, not telling you that. Um, and, and, but, but then the whole thing, you know, you can be the president. Oh no, you don't want to be no goddamn president. It was just, it was just a lot, man. You know, I studied tailoring when I was 15 years old. I wanted to be a master tailor. I wanted to be able to throw a jacket in the air and it would levitate because it was so tailor made, you know? So that literally was my goal at 15 and nobody took this kid, you know, serious like that. You know, my parents didn't, uh, or parent didn't, um, uh, basically, you know, stop me from doing what, you know, okay. You want, you thought about that. Let's see. You spoke, is it like 10 years ago at MAD? Has it been? Damn. Has it been that long? Yeah. It's a decade. It's already a decade. Since you sat at the restaurant and you came to speak and what's happened, what, what's happened in the last decade for you? What have you learned since in the last 10 years? If you look back. Man, I, I've learned a lot, René. I've learned. It's like that I have tenacity and that I, that, I mean, I'm not even supposed to, with some of the shit that's happened to me in this business or whatever this is, I shouldn't be here, you know, from, from your, from having, you know, your, your fiscal sponsor as a nonprofit, you know, take your money, you know, basically try to steal your money to embezzlement to, know, uh, not being, you know, basically getting damned and no assistance. None of, you know, when people mention my names about, they get, about getting a grant people, they start doing this, René. Oh yeah. Ooh, that guy. Oh yeah. What's next on the agenda? You know? So it's like, why? So I don't, because I, I basically, I'm going to tell you how I feel and I'm going to tell you the real, and I'm going to tell you. Uh, that you're bullish, they call you on bullshit. You know, I was in Unilever at their headquarters and, you know, they got a bunch of nonprofits there and they're not, they're not telling us why we're there. And so, you know, in their test kitchen and, you know, they have their vegan mayonnaise and all this bullshit. And so they asked, they asked me at one point, you know, they're like, we want to know what you guys think about us. And we're at this long table and a bunch of, you know, nonprofits that they invited, you know, to their luncheon that they weren't, they didn't play no, pay nobody to be there. They didn't give them, they didn't fly them in. They didn't take care of nothing. You're Unilever. And so I'm like, you want me to come? I need a check. And I need porto to porto. So they're like, all around, they really want you. I'm like, good. Do what you got to do. And so I'm there and they like, they said this and I, and I said, they're like, we want to know what you think about us. And I said, I think you motherfuckers are the devil. And I paused and I said, but I'll spoon the devil. I said, I'm not having full on sex with you, but I'll take my socks off. And I, and, and I said, okay, okay. I'll take, and I have, I'm pausing. And I said, okay, I'll take my, I'll take my t-shirt off. I'm like, damn, fuck it. I'll take my pants off, but that's it. And you only get a quarter inch tongue. So they think, I know they think, what the fuck are you? What the? And you got people shocked and you got people laughing. But what I do have is your motherfucking attention. And I told them I'm here because you're one of the biggest corporate, multinational worldwide corporations in the world that you can change the food system. I know it can't be done overnight, but I know it can be done. And I know that because the gears are too big, you just can't stop it, but it can be done. And I said, so when that declaration is written, I want my name on it, that I help change the food system. I said, that's why I'm. So, yeah. So that, and this is, this is in their corporate, corporate offices. Amazing. So, but, and I know. So, yeah. And this kind of shit has, you know, spreads, René, throughout, you know, you know, all these companies talk to you and this. So when my name is mentioned, I go, oh, I don't know what that guy. Hey, if you could. It is what it is. It's still our rise to claim the prize. Yeah. Yeah. If you talk about the food system, what are some of the, what are some of the things that you would like to change? If you could. You know, we know there are no magic spells that overnight changes things. But if you could implement something today that by 2070 was in full effect, what were some of the things that you'd change? One, the value of self and then the value of food that you have a value. You should pledge your allegiance to yourself first. You should pledge your allegiance to the soil, to this air that you're breathing, that has no religion, don't care what your pronoun is, don't care who your mom, air, don't give a fuck. You know what I'm saying? Air, we should be more like air. And the air you're breathing right now, René, is the same air I'm breathing. We don't, we don't think about that. I mean, I want kids to know their true value and how magical they are. How do we do that so that by 2070 that's done? It's that, I mean, it's all, it's all, instead of indoctrination, we educate them and show them, you know, to show the magic of one seed, putting that shit in the soil. You can't call it nothing else, René. I put this little tiny ass seed in the ground and I have a damn oak tree or I have a persimmon tree. I mean, that shit's magic. You know, we're spinning around on a ball in outer space. People seem to forget. Yeah, but we're looking for aliens. We're in outer space right now. Stop. You know, so I want kids to, and it's possible for every child to eat a healthy meal in school. We have enough. Why do you have money for tanks that quick? You know, a trillion, $900 trillion. We've sent tanks. So why aren't you helping these kids? Why aren't you helping us, everybody in this country to be healthy? You know, because it's possible. You know, we have places that still look like 1852 or some shit in parts of the United States. I want to see the real, though. I think one of the easiest things to do is healthy food for all these kids, for everybody, man. We should be one of the healthiest places on earth. You know, next MAD is about the long game. We're calling it Built to Last because we'd like to inspire people to think in the long term. And if you look in 50, 60 years from now and you try to envision a school meal, how does that look to you? What's a healthy meal? Something that was raised in healthy soil. Something that wasn't sprayed with poison. You know, something that was just was cared for. And it's easy to do. And it wasn't local. That shit was hyper local. You know, I just reached behind my back. And so that's what I mean. We should have food. We could have food everywhere. Every household have a garden, you think? Yeah. Oh, definitely. I mean, I think if we show people that that beauty of the garden and that connection that we all have to the soil, it we would value. We don't value food. We just we don't. You know, we don't we have it because it's there. We don't value. We don't see what what farm workers go through to produce and to harvest our food. We don't we don't know. We don't even I mean, they talk about market farm workers, this and that. You don't even see how these people are living. You know, even in the field, where are they going to the bathroom? They got I saw some contraption, René, where these people are laying on their bellies on a on a like a sled that's being pulled by a tractor. And they're harvesting food laying on their belly. I'm like, you know, that's how I'm trying to envision. No, it sounds wild. My thing is this whole future thing to me. Fuck the future. If we fix this, if we don't fix this shit right now, you know, future. You see where it's going. It's not getting better, René. It's getting more. So, no, right. The fuck now is what we need to be dealing with. And that's how we need to be thinking, you know, and then the future. Because I want to you talk about 50 years from now. I don't know if I'm a shit. I don't know if I'm a beer. But you will want to be if I bake a cake. If I bake a cake, if I change some shit, I want to be a part of I want to eat some of that cake I baked. So I want to be there to see the change that I had a hand in. So let's fix this shit today. Let's get on it today and not have a let's have let's have a two year plan, you know, and we will increase that shit. But, you know, but but thinking that's how that's how I am, man. I know I want to be a part of what I want to be a part. I want to see the shit that I changed, you know. Do you ever feel like giving up? No, because I know I can't. I mean, because I see the traction, René. I mean, I met this young woman and she said, I know. Oh, I know who you are. And I'm like, how do you know who I am? And she said, because we studied you at the University of Jordan. And I'm like, Jordan and Watts, you know, Jordan Downs and Watts. She says, no. And I knew what she was talking about. So that lets me know that, wow, you know, that what I have done, even though to me it's that small compared to what I want to do, that it is changing people's lives. And it's it's I didn't know that this would happen, René. This was not no way in the hell to what I think I'd be speaking at, you know, in Sussex, UK and at university. Get the fuck out of here. You know what I'm this guy barely can talk, let alone read. And it's like because to this to me, this is a life skill. This is not a hobby. You knowing how to cook, you knowing how to harvest, you knowing how to plant. It's a life skill and it's powerful, you know. And the thing about it, all these powerful things are being stripped from us because we think that's for lowly people. That's from the downtrodden, you know. It's like, oh, I'm not a slave. I'm not planting food. I'm like, you are a slave if you don't. You don't know. It's a life skill. And that's how we should be teaching it. Every school from kindergarten on up, they should be, like you said, plant that tree and you should be involved in a food system. But, yeah, is it, is it, I don't know. I see so much positivity and I see so much change that, no, I can't stop. I mean, I don't, I mean, this is who I am. People are like, oh, you're going to be doing this for the rest of your life. I'm like, I hope not. The only thing I want to be doing for the rest of my life is breathing. I hope somebody takes this and you started a movement. I'm like, I ain't started shit. I ain't started no movement. I ain't started no revolution. Like, how can you say you haven't? I said, because you're the leader. I'm like, don't call me a leader. It's like, why do you, why do you say that? Because I'm not a leader. I said, and they, you know, they said, you remember that guy? I think you're a leader. I have a, pow, oh, shit. I have a, I have a head wound. I think you're a leader, Ron. No, they shoot leaders in the head. They don't shoot them in the arm. They shoot leaders in the motherfucking head. So no, don't call me. And when, and when it goes down and then, you know, it's going to happen. Who started this? He did. So no. Okay. We won't call you the leader. Even though that you, we know who the leader is. That part. Yeah. Seven headed dragon. Every, there's a, there is no leader. You know, everybody, everybody that's involved is a leader. You know, I'll have, I'll have people call me, man, from, from, from New Jersey to Africa. And oh my God. It's, oh my God, we need you. I'm like, why do you need some clown from South Central in Africa? You know, you're the mother. Well, we, I said, you have everything there. You're the original soil. I mean, you have everything that you already need. How, what am I going to do for you? It's like, well, you, I'm saying you can do the same thing. I anoint you here. I, I, I knight you. Go do it. You know? Yeah. But the thing is, Ron, you have that thing that few people have, which is you said it yourself a few times. You just keep going and you have a, you have a mission. You don't let setbacks drive you. Or you don't let setbacks, you don't sit in a corner crying. Or maybe you do, but maybe it's just for half an hour and then you stand up and do it again. You know? René, I'm Black. Okay. That's, that's what it is. I'm Black. Okay. Period. You know? Wow. And that's, that's where I start from. Yeah. And then ignorance is bliss. Oh, I wasn't supposed to do this. Oh shit. You know? Yeah. It's done now. But that's why people call you because you have that. Right. You know, they, they, they know that if you're around, things will keep moving and not a lot of people. But they don't call me. They don't call me with the big checks, René. They, they, they don't call me with those big ass checks that they're giving these other people. No, I think, I think the big checks, you probably entered the wrong industry there. Right. Guerrilla gardening. I've seen some people get some big checks. Yeah. Because we're, we're thinking about the future. And of course, thinking about the future, you're thinking about what you changed today so that the future is better. Right. If I could have you finish with a few messages, would that be okay? Sure. Yeah. So if you were to tell the food corporations of the world what they need to do, can you give them a message? And then afterwards, I'd like you to give a message to all the people that are in food today. What do we need to do now so that the future is better? So that the now is better for the future. Yes. For the few corporations. I mean, it's, to me, I would, the bottom line is to give a fuck, period, you know, about something other than your profits. You know, it would be, it's, it, and it's, to me, I don't know why they're so short-sighted because if you have a product and it's, and it's not killing people, these people will last longer. Their lives will be long. And they, and so they'll be buying your product more. So you're getting more profit instead of having, instead of having the short sighting of, of, oh, let's just do it. And, and we don't care how many people would kill us. Your food shouldn't kill you. The food should heal you. And everything that you put in our food should amplify our bodies, amplify our spirit, amplify our souls. It's not doing that. And you can do that. A lot of the stuff that's in the food, it's not necessary to be in there. I want to see that change. What we can do as people in this industry, I think keep doing what we're doing. I mean, cause there definitely is traction. People are definitely waking up. Yes. Taking, it's taking a minute, but you got to realize how long. They've been programmed with the bullshit, you know? Oh, you don't need to grow your own food. We got this for you. I'm not telling people to grow their own food, all that, but you should know what's in your food. You should know how your food has been grown. You should know what's, what's, where it came from. And most people don't. And I, and I think if we keep pushing this message that, uh, about the bottom line, the word that just popped up is humanity, period. All this shit is be, be humane. It's that simple. Give a fuck about something other than yourself and money. Cause what can you really do with money? But you know, it's, it's, the shit ain't even real. To me, it's people over profits. You know, um, you can still do good. If you do good, you're actually going to do better. Be transparent, be real. If you're going to be healthy and you, you want to see, um, lasting change and you want to see people, uh, live longer without these chronic diseases that, that all of a sudden are taking over the world. It's like, um, that's what I think that's what we need to do. It's like, I do a question and I don't know why I do this shit because every time I do it, it makes even thinking about it, it makes you want to, I, I ask people how many people here have no somebody that has cancer that passed away from cancer. If you have cancer, uh, raise your hand. And I used to, I get, I get this René, but now I get this, I get people raising two fucking hands and, and it's just like instant tears, you know? And it's like, and, and I'm talking damn near the whole audience. And that, why is that? Oh, and it's a rare form and it's a rare form. I thought rare meant one or two, but now rare is always a rare. So yeah. Yeah. There's more to me. Yeah. So how do we change that? You know, how do we change that? You know, and I think we have to do. Food is a good place to start. What we eat. Food is what you're putting in your body. Yeah. What we eat and how we produce it is more or less the key to all the problems. More or less the key. And that, that's what I, that's what I want people to realize, man, the power. And if we empower children early on with this thought, with these kinds of lessons, I mean that, cause we got to change the way they think rather than thinking that this other shit is normal. And it's not, you know. Ron, you are an incredibly inspiring person. And you are also a person that is completely unafraid, which to me is probably the most inspiring bit about you. To be unafraid and to keep going, to always speak your mind and always be real. As you say, it is simply a joy to speak to you and a joy to have you as a friend and to know there are people like you out there being an uncle for gardens all around the world. It's just, thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation. René, I mean, I, I so appreciate you, man. And, and, and, you know, the respect and the love that, and what you've done. And I've known you've taken some swords with, you know, some of the shit you've done, but you're like, fuck y'all, I'm doing it anyway. Yeah. You know, and that, that's, you're inspiring so many people, man, around the world. And, and I, to be in, you know, a cohort, to be in company with, which is, is, I mean, come on, man. I can't even, I can't even say enough. I mean, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being René. Hopefully we can see you soon in Copenhagen. You will. We'll be there. Let a spade be your weapon of choice. Wise words for all of us. Thanks for listening to MAD Talks. And please come back next week for a new episode with another fascinating speaker from MAD Symposium. This podcast was produced by Sidsel Kaae Nørgaard and made by MAD. 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