S1E1 - Magnus Nilsson & Moose Fondue - MAD Talks

[Music] the specialty was moose fondue Moose fondue as in putting cooked moose and melted cheese No it was putting mousse in like thin slices of raw mousse More in like in a sort of a Japanese brothy fondue kind of thing you know Understood Like a hot pot Like a hot pot you know Because in melted cheese that would have been crazy [Music] Welcome I'm Molina Shannon de Pedro the executive director of MAD This is our new podcast MAD Talks For our first season our founder Renee Redzeppi who is also the chef and owner of Restaurant NMA sits down each week with an iconic speaker from our signature event Mad Symposium Together they talk about food creativity and the future we hope to build In this episode Renee speaks with Magnus Nielsen chef former director of Matt Academy and current program director of the Food Planet Prize Hello Magnus Nielson My dog is barking in the back Um but hello Magnus Nielson We are all friends We've known each other Yes for a long time and I have all these questions written down but somehow I feel like I don't need that because once we you and me start talking we will we can't stop Um but what I wanted to talk to you about today was um basically the fact that you are an incredibly successful person in our industry You've had international success as a restaurant tour as a chef You've been been invited and spoken everywhere around the world You've traveled the world You've uh gathered Michelin stars and all sorts of accolades You've one of the most successful chef authors of our region I think ever Um you are an artist You have exhibitions with your photo art Uh and you had this restaurant that was just seemingly with rocket fuel on while everyone else was running on diesel Uh and then you closed it and now you're coming back And so yes what happened you know all of this stuff I'm very curious to understand a little bit But before we get into all of that why don't you just um tell people that don't know you so well why did you become a cook i became a cook because I really like cooking And you know it sounds very very simple in a way but uh it's the truth I enjoy every aspect of cooking you know working with your hands like the uh the intellectual part of it Figuring something out learning How old were you when all when you realized this oh very young I mean I don't know six 7 8 10 young you know Really yeah I have a tiny little chef's jacket at home somewhere that my parents bought to me Yeah So that was very early And I I mean it wasn't obvious all of the time because I've also sort of veered off in other directions many times I mean after elementary school I essentially chose between either going to cooking school or to going to school to become a marine biologist So two very different sort of paths and then I I went to cooking school and that sort of pattern has repeated itself many times for me whether I've decided on another path or tried another path and then reverted back to uh to cooking again Okay What when you think about cooking and you and you go back into that six seven 10 year age is there some moments or is there a person that influenced you in a way that made you decide i mean we ate well at home Uh both my parents cook uh my both my grandmothers cooked a lot There was always a lot of good food around and an emphasis on you know eating dinner together and like all of these things that I think a lot of a lot of cooks have this in common that there are you know warm childhood memories of like the community around a table and whatever Um but I have uh I have this sort of specific memory from like it something I saw on television you know the like the classic French restaurant of Bashil uh whoever it was that was the chef at this time if it was Mark or if if it was one of the Heberlin brothers or who whoever it might have been at this point in history uh he came to Stockholm and he did like a a little guest dinner at a restaurant in Stockholm and it was on like national news television and I saw that he made this dish which was a museline of scallops with two oysters inside and it was wrapped in a like a leaf of um cabbage and it was steamed and like there something with him like explaining technically how this thing was made and what he wanted it to be like that really resonated with me And this was You saw this on the news yeah I saw it on the news and this was like you know I was like eight or something Um and that's when I you know realized that it was more uh to it than just like the community around a table or having a good meal or whatever It was like that's the moment That's such an incredible moment I wonder have you ever had that dish i have They kept it on at that particular restaurant for years Oysters and scallops that made Magnus Nielson a chef Yeah Right So so from scallops to and um and oysters and then you find yourself becoming a cook What what happened uh I mean I went to cooking school when I started high school So I was 15 16 something like that I liked certain aspects of it but I was also very disappointed with other parts of it because it wasn't you know always that great like the the in the school No I mean it was I went to a good cooking school and like there was plenty of opportunity but like the level of craft and what you were exposed to then uh it was not at a always at a very high level Uh and it was not representative perhaps of what I wanted to do as a cook It was more you know perhaps catering to industry needs at that time you know Um can I ask stop you there did you already know what you wanted as a cook but I think I knew what I wanted to kind of work with in terms of cooking I didn't have any concept of you know great restaurants right i've never been to a great restaurant but I knew that uh standing behind a plancha and like frying already paned frozen fillets of cod was not uh what I thought was interesting It was like that dish with the cabbage and the oysters and the musulino of scallops and like that type of So you always had some sort of intuition I think yeah craft for quality like I think so Yeah it was just in you It was there Yeah And and and and I mean I was lucky to uh get to intern in like very good restaurants during the sort of high school years Um because that was my first experience with like a restaurant that actually cooked for real and cooked from scratch and cooked with decent produce and so on Is there one moment that you can think of i have myself moments from when I was a young cook and you know there's a one specific chef He gave me a task and I felt so much trust so deep trust that it almost ignited a flame in me that I think is still there actually Yeah No like the first restaurant that I interned in and the first restaurant that I worked in I worked extra during high school as well was in the town where my school was which was a ski town in North Sweden called Or And the restaurant was Villa Lotto Uh which was like a you know sort of a resort It was for the the winter guests you know Can you imagine people that don't understand Swedish when they hear this word it's a great Swedish word It's cute even in Swedish Um and there was like two moments like that you know One was when I So this was a big alakart restaurant Like they they did like several hundred covers in a in a busy evening and it was all alakart Um and I remember that I was given like the opportunity to make uh like a little amuse bush because it was not something that they normally did There was no infrastructure for it and was How old are you at this point at this point I'm 16 probably and they asked you this professional restaurant Yeah I probably asked them if I could do this uh because I maybe I you know I'd never had naming maybe I'd read about it I don't know Uh but but I I I remember that that was something that I I was allowed to do and it was like an addition to something that they normally did There was none of that you know it was like a bread and butter and then you had your one to three courses essentially And then uh the other point part of this was that uh this restaurant was open all the time always open Um and uh when I was in third year of high school I got to cook on uh Christmas Eve when no one else wanted to work And I took that as a a great opportunity and an honor You know today I realized that it was just because I was the only one who accepted cancelling Christmas Eve and then just working there alone in the kitchen instead for you know whatever But you saw an opportunity Yeah And uh and those those are like two important moments I think in that sort of wow Yeah There's always those moments I I whoever you speak to they're really truly moments that make a difference And I remember those particularly now that you know I have a team and we're leaders and you think am I giving those moments to my team or am I sometimes doing the opposite because you can also turn off Oh yeah somebody's flame by saying the wrong thing You know it's it's always a a challenge Was there any moment ever in that first period where you felt [ __ ] this not really actually to be honest Like there was like that period of time was very exciting to me It was like you know a sort of journey of discovery because it was so new And this is like I mean I hadn't been I hadn't been exposed to any great restaurants Uh I was interested in them but there weren't any great restaurants in the town where I grew up We went out but it was like uh you went for a pizza Tell us a little bit if I stop you there You're in Northern Sweden Sweden is a giant country with a small population There's of course no internet There's Were there magazines international magazines down at the magazine stand there there was no like no international magazines really So how did you get information it was a a Swedish magazine Swedish Gourmet All right Which was run by Lo Peday that you also knew before he passed away Uh I mean and he brought like the world of gastronomy to Sweden and as you say this is like pre- internet uh this is like the only real source of uh something that wasn't out of a guide book like I missing which was you know today it's not particularly inspiring but in those days it was very dry uh what they published and I mean what Swed Gourmet managed to do was to like really bring sort of the you know the the feeling of someone being there experiencing something and then giving it to you to share Yeah Sorry I'm laughing because you say uh it was really dry the Michelin Guide Well I I remember them We all had them We bought them every year and you read them and it's like you come to a point like why am I reading this you know there wasn't much information in them It was basically here's a star or not or two or three this is what it costs And then like the the thing with the different forks and knives and that no one really ever understood fully But the first time I saw NMA in a Michelin guide I was like I couldn't believe it Yeah And then what I traveled to France uh with a friend who also worked in this restaurant who's a chef and his aunt uh had a place in Paris with you know one of these little like cleaning cupboards in the attic where you could potentially have a bunk bed if you're really motivated And uh I was supposed to stay there for uh uh just like a little while and then I ended up staying for several years you know And at first it was sort of through the winter and I grew quite tired with the idea of cooking and uh I I thought that maybe I would go home I don't know It was it wasn't fun you know I didn't find a place Um I worked at uh Lesh and I was fired Why um I think you know it I think like the reality of it was that it was like I started in December I worked over like the Christmas rush and then in January they weren't very busy so they just like got rid of a few people that weren't performing super What did he tell you from chef pasta no it wasn't him It was Maro Kol Greco our mutual friend who was the head chef there at that point you know And what did he tell you h not much because he didn't speak very good French and I didn't speak very good French either So it was just made clear that I was not working there anymore And uh and then I interned in a couple of places and it wasn't great You know I had a good time in Paris but like it wasn't I couldn't see that there was you know I wasn't excited about the future in cooking at that point But can you say if you think back can you now in retrospect see what it was was it too much work was it the at what do you think it was i think it was like just that I wasn't I I I wasn't having like good fortunes in like the work life and all of these things you know because I work there It wasn't exciting uh to me then I didn't understand it I didn't I I thought I spoke French I mean I have to add that as well I thought I spoke French Turned out that I didn't Um so it was very difficult to uh have a meaningful existence in that restaurant um I didn't understand and truly appreciate what they were doing at that point which I actually started doing much later as a as a customer um and working in other restaurants in France later on but you know it was it just wasn't fun you know the idea was to go back to Sweden and start going to business school instead and not be a cook anymore and what happened to the marine biologist in you that I I still don't know what happened to him you But that curiosity for the natural world that stayed with you Oh yeah absolutely So business school Yeah And that was more like you know when when you when you're uh 22 or something and you start realizing that you need to like have a job and you need to But did you want to be rich what made you say business it seemed like an appropriate sort of thing to do you know because I I I had uh uh like the uh academic qualifications to get into a very good business school Uh and that is because you've always been very good academically Yeah we should mention this to everyone Yeah I mean school was easy for me uh in many ways and I think that that you know it just felt like an appropriate path to take to just go to business school and then I just didn't They stayed in France because you got a job at Las Lance and it started which at that time was probably the most exciting restaurant in all of Europe it was going to be you know because when when I when I got the job uh it was actually I mean I read it but in Swedish gourmet not big article like a little like tiny five row you know note you know uh that they'd been there and it was like up and coming and it was the old head chef and general manager from Nesh who started this restaurant So it was very new when I came there They had just gotten their first Michelin star I've interned at first and then that turned into you know an actual um paid position and uh all of a sudden I just enjoyed all of it I mean I've never worked more in my life than when I worked there Even having your own restaurant Even having my own restaurant Wow Um and uh it was also a very tough restaurant to work in I mean small and very very busy and you know incredibly cramped Yeah Yeah all of that you know and but I I enjoyed it uh tremendously and I enjoyed working with What was it i don't know You know I I don't it was like just you know it felt I think maybe maybe was because I got along really well with Pascal the owner um who I mean spoke French He'd lived outside of France so he had a different perspective on not just his cooking but on everything that you know has to do with how you perform in a kitchen Um and I think we just got along really well and and uh But was he more curious towards you did he listen more to you did he ask very curious Very very curious So you felt like you were actually a person there and he like he was Yeah listening to you So I I you know I stayed and I didn't enroll in business school So we can thank Pascal Babu for me not working in a bank for you not being an evil banker and us just serving you food Uh wow Mhm So he's an important person in your career as well Very important And uh and Lasance was also I mean important for those reasons that we just said but it was also the first restaurant where I saw like truly saw and understood the difference between exceptional produce and just like produce or good produce even Uh because the emphasis there on like the quality like the in sometimes intangible quality of produce is so clear Um and to me that's like I mean you know yourself like no chef ever says that they're working with anything but the best produce Everyone says that I work with the best produce but do they and of course it's impossible because not everyone can work with the best produce But I felt like when I was there that that was truly what it was It was the best produce in France Yeah was the best you could find you know Um Unbelievable Yeah Wow It sounds like such a moment It was and I enjoyed it a lot When you came back from this very important restaurant in Fr in Paris I met you Uh you were at Nommo with a bunch of Swedish chefs I can't remember who it was but I remember you Yep Very vividly That's the first time we meet Yep And next time I hear about you you've opened Favikin Is that correct remembering kind of I mean you're you're probably fast forwarding a little bit Uh probably it happens when when we get old I think I I came I was actually still working at uh Lasance when I came here Okay uh the first time and I mean this was also this was also like an important moment in for me and gastronomically because I I came here and this was I mean no the restaurant can't it can't have been open for more than like 8 or 10 months or something it was a long time ago time ago but I remember that it was almost impossible to get there um because like the the taxi driver had no idea he had no idea uh about this restaurant uh and uh I didn't have a smartphone so I had to find the address somehow I remember it felt like uh an old western movie You were expecting like tumble weed to come rolling across in front of the restaurant when you got out of the taxi Um but you know it was the it was the first time uh where I saw that there was a future in like my home region for a restaurant like the one that I already worked in in France that there could be like a place for something Um and that was it was a very early iteration of NMA It was nowhere near what it became and what it was today But it was still like you know that there was a seed of a seed of something there Um and that it didn't have to be uh like a French or Italian restaurant You don't need blar or ravioli on the menu And I mean there were there were plenty of of good restaurants around that that had a very unique character then like Waxen or Mistral in Stockholm or something like that but they hadn't I don't know why but they never appealed to a bigger audience than locally you know True And and I knew that that was not going to cut it for anything that I wanted to do And when you look back to those early days when you got offered a restaurant Favikin I I mean I it was a little bit uh like a coincidence right the way it happened Uh and it was supposed to be a small thing kind of like you going to Paris and then it ends up being a sensation But yeah so I mean the background of hacking is this It's a mountain estate like up north roughly in the region where I came from It's owned by a family uh with wealth Um it's like this beautifully restored farm essentially And um they have it for themselves It's where they have you know they celebrate Christmas and they go there for vacation they go there for hunting and things like that But they also had the ambition when they bought it that it was not going to be closed off to the public because it's a place that has a very deep meaning for a lot of people living in that region So that was always part of the deal that it was going to be open kind of like a hunting lodge or something sort of like that But you know it used to be I mean in the old days like it used to be a farm that was built to supply the then copper mines in the Aura Mountain which was the biggest workplace in Scandinavia at some point and have a thousand employees in the end of the 1800s you know with food So it's a place that's been there for a long time It's been important for the community and so on So they wanted to keep it open Um and uh they figured that part of that was to keep the restaurant that they inherited when they bought the place in 2003 or something Uh keep that going you know And uh of course I mean they don't come from restaurants They had no idea about that But it was a place mostly catering to functions you know like corporate dinners And the specialty was moose fondue Moose fondue as in putting cooked mousse in melted cheese No it was putting mousse in like thin slices of raw mousse More in like in a sort of a Japanese fondue kind of thing you know Understood Like a hot pot Like a hot pot you know because in melted cheese that would have been crazy Uh and it wasn't in any way great but the first service I ran at Faviken uh was like a reservation that was left from before So it was 179 people for Moose Fondu Wow Wow Wow Wow And you open up and very quickly you find some sort of energy Very quickly the rumbling starts around Scandinavia Something's going on There's something new happening There's a new vibe Uh it went very quick that people noticed you How did that feel to you did you feel the rise yeah I did But not initially you know and and I remember I mean in the beginning like the plan was not to make this happen The plan was to like just make this a bit more sustainable for the family who ran it and for me to stay there for maybe half a year I was asked to come up there to help them buy wine because at this point I had stopped cooking again and trained to be a sier instead Um so I thought that it was a fun like a fun opportunity to practice buying wine and do it with his family who seemed nice and my friend he cooked there when they had like their private functions and things like that Um hang on hang on Why did you stop again cooking uh well I was incredibly disappointed with produce when I came home to Sweden from having worked at Lasance Like so you just said "Fuck this shit." Yeah it was like impossible you know because everything I cooked it felt and looked like food from last but I did not have like the produce to cook that way And I also did not have like the supporting you know system to cook that way So it was just like such an uphill slope and it was not so She said just forget about it Yeah I'll do wine instead Yeah You always make these very wild quick decisions where it's like everything is changing now Yeah But maybe we'll get into that You open up success happens it becomes wild You also start being like a father I guess Um extremely busy You are really on the scene You you uh you create a bestseller that I think is still kind of the best seller of Nordic food Might be up there still The Nordic cookbook Um I it was just wild to watch you and then you want to close Yeah Why it's sort of it's it's a bit complicated to explain but essentially give us the Twitter version Yeah The Twitter I mean I woke up one one morning and then I did not want to work there anymore Why well that's the Twitter version You know it's like I don't know why Uh and and I think it was always made clear and it was always an understanding between me and Patrick and Analo who owned the place like owned the estate that this was not going to be forever And I always thought that they were going to run out of patience with having me running a restaurant in their vacation home before you know I ran ran out of uh you know passion to run that place But in the end that wasn't the case In the end I actually just woke up one morning and I was like "Nope not interested." Was it cooking was it the industry was it too much pressure was it a combination what because there must have been several factors for you None of that It was just the place I was just like done with the place you know i didn't want to do it anymore And and uh I didn't I never I didn't you know I never minded the pressure I never minded like all of those parts Uh the last few years I didn't cook anything at Faviken but I still ran it I mean I was very much present and working there and doing things I did not do any of the cooking Um and I can even today I can miss that I miss the craft of cooking but that had very little to do with the uh the decision to close and I think it was just like I didn't feel like running it anymore And because of the way that it was all constructed from the beginning with an understanding that this has an end at some point it was also relatively easy for me to say well now this is that point you know and so at that point you are deciding to close You have two or three kids at this point Three kids Three kids You don't have a plan No plan Secondary plan but you have family to support Yeah And I guess you also built up some sort of note and you built up like a presence in the world Were you afraid of losing that no No No I I mean I never cared about that It's like then that's it's an honest answer It's like I just don't none of that But you know cuz I think that's very unusual I think most people they experience some sort of success and then inevitably of course other things happen Yeah And then people they try to protect this success and they start making very bad decisions Yeah No I never really never cared about that you know It's like it's a like all of that to me it's a tool to achieve something you know that you want to do It's like with Favikin like having that sort of notoriety or you know fame was a a way to fill the restaurant so that I could do what I felt interested in uh way to sell the books for example so that I could you know spread the word on like the traditions of Nordic cooking and then in the end also actually like buy the orchard that we live in today I mean I couldn't have done that without like writing those books no way you know um but I the the practicality of it that you mentioned like that I actually had a family to support and those things that was more present than those sort of other questions uh on the consequences of is but I always figured that uh there would be something coming up and you know I knew that if nothing else like exciting would come up I could always take like a consultancy for a short amount of time and you know get by for a year or two and like if nothing truly interesting came up I could always start a new restaurant because at that point you know everyone says it is difficult to start restaurants and it is when you've never ran a restaurant but when you've had a restaurant and you know you reach some amount of success it's not that difficult anymore which is terrible but it's true right oh Magnus I wish I had your uh uh confidence in saying that but uh you know it's I don't think it's easy No but or I should rephrase that to get to start a restaurant To start a restaurant is always difficult but to like to get to make it work that's hard Yeah to have an idea and then to open it Those two moments are fairly okay But then making it work in the long run that's that's different That's a different thing you know But but I always felt like you know if if everything else like fails I can always like deck out a small kitchen at the farm and I can cook you know I can just cook for people there and I can make a living for myself at least that way Um it's amazing You you you are like that It's truly is a gift to be like that Almost like scrappy you know and not you know I'll just open a deck oven and start cooking something and then I'll support myself That's uh that's incredible When if we just finish off Favikin what are you most proud of when you think back i mean that we made the place work and you know what you're mentioning that that's a difficult part but favin really truly worked and for the first half of its existent it didn't the first half of its existence it's it functioned uh only because of the sacrifice of a lot of people going into it didn't really work it just functioned you know are you talking about in one way I mean in every way like financially in terms of uh how you know the sustainability of people working there uh you know creatively in every way it was un you know unsustainable um and we got how did you feel that I mean I felt like I couldn't continue doing it for practical reasons like that it was just not possible for me to work that way there was this moment where we discussed with the then sort of management team which was quite small I mean we were still only like 18 20 people working there uh you know full-time um that like this can't go on because like we're going to run out of cooks and none of us like the core people want to work this way and like this is not going to be like we can't do this anymore Uh and that was a combination of like you know the what what you expect from uh team how what you expect from customers like how you want to work creatively uh like all of these things you know what you expect customers to pay um they all hard equation it's a very difficult equation and and for us it was sort of a either we change this now or we just close because we know that it's not going to be able to continue and uh and what we did essentially you know when we analyzed this it became very clear that a A lot of the problems or most of the problems they had to do that with the fact that we were understaffed in relationship to what we wanted to do like the level of ambition that we wanted to deliver on So essentially we just doubled our team So we went from 18 or 19 to 43 employees And to pay for this we also went from 1,700 krona to 3,800 krona uh menu price overnight uh which is like still today is 3,800 krona is still a lot of money for a restaurant menu But this is also like 6 years ago or more It's almost 10 years ago now That was a big increase I remember when that happened and people were like in shock Yeah But the interesting thing was that I had prepared like all of these sort of little defenses to explain that you know we're going to pay we're going to you know employ people We're going to enforce uh 40hour work week with a 10-hour cap on overtime fully paid we're going to unionize the restaurant like all of these things you know that cost a lot of money Uh and then no one cared Like there was not a single journalist that wrote about it or asked about it There was not a single mention on social media There was not a was nothing Uh and the restaurant booked out the same way as before Uh well which was weird you know because I you know and I'm not saying that that's like true everywhere Of course it's not But do you know of any chef out there that doesn't look at the balance sheet at the end of the year and thinking to themselves it's not going so well but I don't dare to raise the prices Everyone does that Everyone thinks that you know and and it's I think it's like it's a it's a huge problem in our industry because we don't accept that market price is what you have to charge and then you have to kind of abide by those rules and spend market price plus profit Like that's your budget like your operating budget you know uh we just sort of have our operating budget based on what everything costs and then we like stick a finger up in the air and we just sort of guess what people might find acceptable to pay for this Um and uh and I think that leads to a lot of these issues with uh you know underresourcing of mainly of staff actually and for us I mean that was a huge difference We went from this place where people came and they worked for a few months Uh I shouted at them and uh they worked 80 hours a week and then you know they left uh and then someone else came in to a place where people just stayed and when the restaurant closed I mean like almost no one on the payroll on the final payroll had worked there for less than like three years and there was a lot of people who worked there for like five six seven years which is I mean it's really rare for that kind of restaurant I think Mhm That's definitely And um and the interesting thing was that the restaurant worked better financially during this time than it did before because we had also like factored in the fact that we needed to be somehow profitable That's definitely something to be proud of to having set that up Yeah And then in the end you know he never made any money because we always spent that money on something but it was something of our choosing you know a new gadget or like one more staff or you know something that you wanted to do but it was by choice not by you know Yeah No I get it You you're always looking to make it better for the guest to unlock more creativity Yeah You know that's I I know the type of person you are I think in that sense we're we're quite similar And I think many chefs think like that Yeah But you feel the need to a change Uh I guess you conquered it You did it and you change And then for many years you've done What have you been doing basically i mean I I bought the apple orchard where we live which is a 10 hectar like production orchard So we grow 100 tons of apple every year So I turned that certified It sounds like a lot 100 tons of apple but it isn't that much nothing You know how many liters of juice is that that's 65,000 L of juice if you juice all of it It's a small apple orchard You can't make a living off of it Uh at least not if you bought it like we did Maybe if you inherited you could make a small living out of it But it's super interesting to work with primary production to to you know grow food as a commodity and to try to do that really well and to try to grow for flavor not for uniformity of shape or color or some other ridiculousness you know um very difficult why is it that I mean that's the old question flavor quality why is that why does that get punished in our world of food why do you think so I don't know I think it's just you know it's more difficult uh because of the way that the the the food distribution system which I think for the most part gets too much [ __ ] you know because it after all like the our food distribution system is what makes us have access to food most of us at least um today as opposed to 100 years ago But it also comes at a cost and this is like part of that that you know it it you just sacrifice certain things simply because it's easier it's easier for a retailer to just have a tray of perfectly red perfectly spotless equal sized apples equally priced like all of that just easier you know but you know no so and the other part of what I done is that I I mean I worked here at MAD when the MAD Academy started which was something I did for about two uh which I mean was incredibly interesting to work with the hospitality industry in a way that I'd never worked with it before And then uh I went on to work with as the director general for um another foundation called the Kirk Burke for Foundation that gives out the world's biggest environmental award called the food planet prize which is it is the world's biggest environmental award in general but it can only ever go to projects within a food system So it's also very different from what I've done before but super interesting in this period Did you miss cooking did you miss restaurants or were you happier than ever i I mean I was I was equally happy because this was very this was very challenging for me you know um to come from the background that I come from and then start working with this you know you you're the head you're the the like the highest executive of an organization that manages 500 million crona in capital and your main job is to make sure that no one like squanders this money on [ __ ] and uh that it goes to the initiative somewhere in the world that has the highest potential for impact It sounds quite easy but it's not It's very challenging So for me to like that it was very stimulating It It was in the same way as running a great restaurant I do miss having guests you know and I I don't miss cooking as such because I I cook a lot at home and you know things like that but I do miss having guests So what made you open what made you say I'm doing this again i mean I so the the idea when I closed favikin first was to open a new restaurant in the orchard to build like a bigger version of favik in the orchard and those plans were like far along you know and then spring of 2019 or spring of 2020 it must have been when it was pandemic you know uh was more time to think about things and I realized that I didn't want to do it you know I'd closed this place because I didn't want to run it and I was just about to launch a huge project to open a restaurant exactly the same as the one that I just closed because I didn't want to run it but in a different part of country But why what why not that restaurant um was it because it you were sort of locked into it or Yeah it it was the same as Favik uh but with you know it was just so much money and so uh to build a new place to build a new place and it was fundamentally going to lock me in for a long time doing something that I wasn't sure about whether I wanted to do or not So I canled that project completely Um and then the orchard became just the place where we lived And uh yeah after that I kind of tested a lot of ideas about how to possibly run a restaurant in the orchard but I never found something that I wanted to commit to What sort of ideas i mean like radical ideas or uh all kinds of ideas you know running like a canteen running bakery At one point I I did like the math on on running like a jam a small jam factory there just making jam like a oneperson jam factory Was it good math no I mean it was more profitable than orchard is today but uh but still not like you know so you the apples into jam basically I mean I don't know what it was but you know it's like I tried a lot of different ideas on the Orchard and and and none of it really felt like something I wanted to do because I also had I mean I had the job here at MAD which was very interesting and stimulating I had a job at the foundation after that that was also stimulating So I didn't feel a huge need to do any of this And I actually kind of decided that there was not going to be another restaurant Okay But why had you decided I'm no not doing restaurants cuz I didn't feel I didn't feel like intensely that this was something that I wanted to do Um and uh and then the house came along The house came along It's just in in town like we we live just outside of town and this is like below the hill where we live in the outskirts of town on the beach There is this old uh inn that was built in 1905 as a a boarding first as a boarding school for young girls uh to run run to learn how to run a household Um and then it was quickly and now it's for big bearded men Exactly Right No it was quickly turned into an inn So I mean it was essentially it's been run as an inn since 1907 And so you find this house next to you big history incredible building Correct uh how do you put together a project in these days because the world is very different from when you open fab you know for me How do you go about it well I went about it completely the wrong way I think in in like traditionally speaking because I just bought the house I secured funding and I bought the house and then so you secured the property which is of course a fantastic thing to do I'd recommend anyone who has the if you're about to open a restaurant or something if you can actually acquire the property do that Um and then then how did you build the project what what sort of restaurants did you foresee well you know I I knew What do you think the world is missing right now basically the world is missing a perfectly ordinary restaurant uh to be honest you know um and that it sounds a bit weird but for me like the hotel is the main thing with this place It's really like you know people have stayed in these rooms for more than 100 years and there's something with that that's just like special Um and then I mean I knew already from the beginning that it was not going to be you know a continuation on like the creative sort of expression of favin because that's to me is just not interesting and it's not something that this town needs Um are you worried that people might go there expecting I'm 100% certain that that's going to happen and that's like the only fear I have with this project you know it's like this is going to be a great restaurant Like there's no mistake about that but it's not going to be that kind of restaurant It's not going to be tasting menu It's not going to be excluding Uh I mean excluding is not always bad It's sometimes also good when it comes to these types of restaurants It's part of the appeal of the restaurant But this restaurant is not going to be that you know Um this is a place that will be open breakfast lunch and dinner It will have a bakery Um it'll be alikart Uh you'll be welcome to come and eat only a main course and you know have a beer if you want to Um and the whole point of it is to create a restaurant attached to the hotel that's an integrated part of our local community like our town Yes and apply the same ideas and thoughts around produce and craft that both you and I have applied on our you know super fine dining restaurants but you know on a cinnamon bun and a cup of coffee and uh 180 crona plated lunch and things like that Wow How many rooms 15 So it's not huge you know And what is your dream for that place for it to be there for a really long time and to you know be profitable and function uh so that you can keep it going at a very high level of quality and to make it into an integrated part of like our community What sort of measures have you put into place to secure that i know you So you must have thought you're you think like an engineer So you must have put something in the plan where you think this will give it the longevity I'm I'm looking for Yeah Well I think that like one of those things is that I'm I really also believe in the idea of co-ownership and I I first toy with the idea that this place was going to be fully staff owned Uh and then I you know when you start thinking about that you know it can feel very appealing in many ways but you also run into uh issues after a while because when it when you know push comes to shove in the end you know there has to be someone who can also take responsibility when everything is not going the way it's supposed and so on So the way that I've done this now is that I I've own the building 100% And then uh I've leased the finished building equipped and ready to uh another company So you have funded the whole remodeling of the whole building Um how have you done that i mean I borrowed money I borrowed a lot of money You must have borrowed a lot of money Yeah I did And you know I I was very fortunate to be in a position where that's possible And it has to do with the fact that the the building is in a town that's attractive uh in terms of real estate that I had a little bit of money myself and also that fabin was successful and uh you know people believe in this idea and in me So but I put most of the those parts in like the real estate company and then the the rights to use the building is leased out to an operations company And the idea with that is that it should be possible for a whole bunch of people to buy into this operations company to buy into the the restaurant and the hotel without having that much money Is the restaurant and hotel separated in in companies or is it all one company it's one So if you if you buy in you buy into the home but you don't own the building Sure Uh so you know you'll rent it Uh and then you know and and the way that this is laid out is I mean currently I own most of the operations company as well but I've been very open with fact that up to 50% of the operations company I want the team to own So I will retain 50% It's such an interesting way I I hope that it's the right way We'll see in the future if it is you know Um nobody can predict the future but it is a way forward that's different I think so Yeah Fantastic I really like that I can see you have the the bank is there They believe in you The money is there You have the team more or less in place There's a good plan for them how to take ownership and really build a future there There's one part of all of this which is something that we didn't grow up in but has become increasingly more important which is to spread the word out How are you going to tell the world the way that I hope that it happens is that we are able to you know um have a mix of half about half of the people being local customers and the other half coming in from somewhere else whether that's you know Goththingberg or Copenhagen or like the closer bigger towns in the area or if it's from further away who knows um but we don't get to choose our customers You get what you get Um but you know if I could hope for something it would be to get that mix And I would personally find it very sad Uh if we three or four or 5 years from now run uh a decent business there that works you know that pays our salaries and pays for the building and makes it possible for me to pay back but only with people who are traveling in You know I I I really want those customers but I also really want this place to be like part of Yeah the local community in your town and they embrace you No I can I can I can totally That never happened with Fabik you know because of what it was It was so small so limited in amount of like in amount of chairs and so costly and you know very excluding and it was great for what it was but it there were not many uh customers from uh the local area there when you think back has what has changed in you what do you think about our industry today and the role of being a cook and I think that there will always be like a an appetite for the very highest expression of any craft So I mean people talking about like fine dining being dead and stuff like that you know I think that's just [ __ ] It's like it's not true uh because there's always an appetite for the very very you know highest or most extreme or most fantastic expression of any anything Um for sure but I don't feel particularly excited about that world today There are so few restaurants that I feel truly excited about at the moment Uh and I and this is something that I hear when I speak to other chefs as well It's impossible to look into the future like that But I it feels like at some point now something is going to happen What do you think has made that because a lot of people talk about this that we were a part of a generation where so many things happen in our region and you know there's something not happening Yeah What is it that went wrong is it the media has changed or is that different focus or I don't think it's about something going wrong I think it's just like the natural cycle of things It's like you'll have these sort of periods of time where a lot of change happens when there is a lot of disruption that leaves space for new things and then you'll have other period periods where perhaps the next big thing is going to gain momentum Uh and since you can't look into the future and you're part of the old thing you won't you won't also you know see the new thing coming And I think that that's where we are now It's like I can't see for the life of me what like the next thing that's going to make me truly excited about paying like 12,000 crona for a dinner again Like what that what that is you know cuz I still I love going to great restaurants you know i love like paying for like the craft and like beautiful service and beautiful cooking It's like but that sort of excitement of discovery that used to be there like I don't I I can't see what that's going to be next but I know that it will come you know it will happen again because it's happened so many time before Yeah Can't wait for that either Uh this podcast is about you No I think this specific topic we could unpack and we could speak for hours about this Yeah Because there's so many things that is to be talked about You know it's about training It's about how the world is It's about what the focus is in our industry Um it's also a changing world and a changing industry and there's so many aspects but I guess it is true we're all waiting for that uh grassroot thing to happen that comes in and like shows us another way of looking at things you know that we just couldn't think of And I think that's the thing right because you know if if you would have asked you know someone who' been in this for longer than you and I let's let's say you know Thomas Keller when like the French Laundry broke through and became the thing if you would have asked him then uh whether he thought that uh a handful of restaurants in Nordics was going to be like the next big thing in the early 2000s Yeah He would have laughed out loud Right And I think we're at that moment as well is like where we we cannot see what the next we realize there's still plenty of cooks out there that are laughing out loud of the restaurants in the north Oh yeah absolutely And that's fine I think that's perfectly perfectly fine Magnus Um you are so smart It's you're so delightful to to speak with You really are And uh thank you You read you're a person that reads a lot I know that you curious about so many things And if there's something you don't know uh you attack it um immediately And you've now been in this industry for for decades experienced all the success you have What do you dream of i mean I What do you see yourself when you're 75 well you know it's like that I don't know But I the the reason why I want to do these things that I'm currently doing like with the hotel and you know bringing in these partners and doing all of the work that we're doing in the orchard as well I mean we've we've built um like a new apple barn with a cider in it and apple barn Yeah Like a an out building for like all the apple business Um you know for me it's like I just want to create a circumstance where I can go to work uh every day and do things that are interesting and stimulating and exciting and work with nice people that I want to see every day uh and somehow make it possible for them It is a lot to hope for but I think it's something to aim for you know if you if you have the opportunity to try to create that situation like small or big I think it's something to go for And you know if it doesn't work out like if the idea of running the restaurant sort of collectively like this doesn't function if uh you know uh people pay even less than they do today for organic apples and like all of this fails well you know then I'll do something else I'll figure that out then But I think that it's like worth trying to create this circumstance where you surround yourself with people that are interesting and stimulating and nice uh and where you get to work with interesting and simulating things every day Let me ask one final question because you spoke at MAD Yep It was in 2011 and um man things were so different back then Yeah um for for us and for our industry and just in general Um now we're doing Matt 7 It's been seven years since we done the last one and a we lived through a pandemic and now we're going through turmoil in the world Uh and we're trying to inspire people coming to Matt to think long term and have you know plans ready When I say built to last Yeah What do you think what do you say i mean that's what I'm trying to do you know uh to sort of what I was touching on before is like looking at what circumstances you want to surround yourself with and like aiming for that even if it seems a bit farfetched you know and I really hope that for me it works out the way that I said and that on top of that it's also profitable so that I can pay back all of the money that I've borrowed Um and I think that you know you can apply this on any one situation because not everyone is going to be able to like launch that kind of project or build like here you know a whole beautiful building to house like your 2.0 version of your first restaurant in But I think you can always like start thinking about what it is that you want your everyday to contain Um and then you know build for that that and I you know it doesn't have to be like the big things that you buy your own building and you do you know but you know rather than um looking at what um might be perceived as the apparent path to take for someone in your position whatever it might be if it's you're just sort of a cook starting out in this industry or if it's someone who's run restaurants 20 years you know uh rather than looking at that you look at what what is it that you want to fill your every day with and then just build for that Start from the beginning and be build for that I think that's the only thing that I I think people should think about you know Yeah But there's an honesty in that and a clarity in that sort of decision Uh and um I actually 100% believe you're right when you say this Uh no doubt about it And um and with the words there is that is from Magnus Nielson um envision what did you say you said um think of what your life should contain and then build from that Yeah I don't remember what I said but maybe maybe something like that Yeah Think what think of what you want your life to to have Yeah and start building from that which is when I'm hearing you you want to surround yourself with happy people deliver food and quality where people are happy your local community supports you it's a business that thrives takes care of people and it can continue like that in the long run Yeah I hope so That's a good plan Yeah Thank you so much my business Thank you Thanks for listening to MAD Talks and please come back next week for a new episode with another fascinating speaker from MAD Symposium This podcast was produced by Cecil Coco and made by MAD We're a global nonprofit based in Copenagen that works with chefs servers and others in hospitality to help them become better leaders and take better care of our planet To learn more about our work follow us on socials at the madfeed Sign up for our newsletter or check us out at madfeed.co [Music]