Fermentation Revival
MAD3, Sandor Katz, February 13, 2015
In recent years, there’s been much talk of a fermentation revival going on in kitchens across the globe. From South Carolina to Copenhagen, chefs are creating dedicated spaces in which vinegars, misos, and all types of concoctions can bubble away and transform over time, often yielding unfamiliar and delicious results. But as one of the most referenced figures in the fermentation movement explained at MAD, we should remind ourselves that it’s ancient and essential.
Sandor Katz, the author of 2012’s “The Art of Fermentation,” talks about all the ways we can benefit from the process.
About MAD:
MAD is a non-profit transforming our food system by giving chefs and restaurateurs the skills, community, time, and space to create real and sustainable change.
View transcript
[Applause] okay so I don't have a PowerPoint or anything like that I just have some notes and uh here the I have to share the podium with um uh uh the the entrails of the pig good good company um so so I I guess I'd just like to uh uh begin the way I begin um you know really most of the uh uh speaking that I do and just sort of like address the question what is fermentation anyway and uh and and and why is it so significant um so broadly speaking fermentation is the transformative action of microorganisms um if you have a biology background you might already be shaking your head um biologist definitely have a more specific uh uh notion of fermentation and that is that it is um the production of energy without oxygen anerobic metabolism um and you know indeed most of the most widespread ferments that people enjoy um are products of Anor robic microbial processes the production of alcohol from uh different kinds of sugars the production of uh yogurt and uh and many cheeses from uh from milk um but there are some ferments that require oxygen they're sort of the oxymoronic ferments uh and some examples of this would be uh vinegar um kombucha Tempe certain kinds of cheeses and and really everybody um on the ground understands that these also are examples of uh of fermentation so I prefer to work with this uh you know broader lay definition that fermentation is the transformative action of microorganisms but it's really important to understand and we all understand this in a very visceral way that not every transformative action of microorganisms results in something delicious that we wish to put into our mouths and you know in fact most of the food that we discard we are discarding precisely because of the transformative action of microorganisms um and generally we reserve this word fermentation to describe uh desirable or intentional microbial Transformations um but but I think that you know the fact that microbial uh transformation can go many different ways gives us a little bit of insight into the inevitability of microbial change and so uh you know as as as Herbert laid out you know our human bodies are these complex um you know microbial ecosystems um and you know the number of cells that we each possess that reflects our own unique individual idual DNA code are actually outnumbered 10 to one by bacteria that we are host to and human beings are certainly not unique in this regard um you know every biological creation is covered with microorganisms and the evolving consensus in evolutionary biology is that all life is evolved from bacteria and the flip side of this which doesn't get talked about quite as much is that no form of life has ever lived without bacteria um um you know we we we we all you know from a from a you know carrot to a bee uh to a bird uh to an animal um you know to to this pig um um you know we we we all are these complex uh uh microbial ecosystems and you know our physiology interacts with all of these uh bacteria so you know this uh this complex biological reality this biological imperative that we must coexist with bacteria um uh contrasts sharply I think with um you know the indoctrination that you know certainly we we receive it you know very very strongly in the United States but I suspect that uh you know through the second half of the 20th century and into the 21st century and most of the rest of the world um um you know there is this cultural project that I that I like to call the war on bacteria and that's this indoctrination that bacteria are bad bacteria are to be avoided bacteria are to be uh killed um and uh uh you know I I I haven't really observed this here but then I can't really read Danish but uh you know in in in the United States um in public restrooms everywhere you find these soaps that are antibacterial soaps that uh you know sort of Market themselves on the premise that they kill 99.9% of bacteria and it's really come to the point where there's nothing more alluring that you could write on a container of soap than the promise that it kills 99.9% of bacteria you know as if that were a desirable thing um you know because you know I don't want to deny that it's possible to you know become ill from bacteria there are bacterial infections and bacterial illnesses but the reality is that what protects us from the relatively small number of bacteria that have the potential to make us sick are the 99.9% of bacteria that we can coexist with perfectly well and Beyond coexisting with them we are utterly dependent upon them um you know many aspects of our functionality depend upon bacteria beginning with our reproduction human beings cannot effectively reproduce without bacteria and women's bodies produce a a glycogen a carbohydrate that that um uh supports an organiz um a a population of lactic acid bacteria that create an acidic environment that enables us to effectively reproduce and without those bacteria we wouldn't be able to do that um uh you know and then then you know the the the trillions of bacteria uh in our digestive system enable us to effectively digest food and assimilate nutrients from the food that we eat and they also synthesize certain essential nutrients on our behalf so that we don't have to find them in our food and we are learning more and more uh really every year um but but what we call our immune function is actually regulated by these trillions of bacteria uh in our gut um and and and other aspects of our physiology too uh uh just in the last year so there's been exciting research U looking at how uh serotonin and other you know uh uh chemical compounds uh in our bodies that regulate how we feel and how we think are actually regulated um by bacteria in our gut so they're you know they are just utterly essential for so many um aspects of our of our functionality um and so so there's this sharp contrast between um you know the biological reality and um the the the sort of you know ideological indoctrination that sort of ort of you know the the age of microbiology has has yielded which is this it's this fear of bacteria now I mean I first uh I first began playing around with fermentation uh about 20 years ago I I'm certainly not a professional chef I love to cook I always have loved to figure out uh you know how to make anything from from scratch uh 20 years ago I moved from New York City uh where I grew up to um a community in rural Tennessee where I got involved in in in keeping a garden um and you know the the the reasons for that were were many but uh you know among them was um concerned about my health in in uh in TW in 1991 uh 22 years ago um I tested HIV positive and it just made me start thinking about my health and you know thinking about my life and how I could change my life to support my health and the idea of sort of moving out of a a a big busy polluted city to a a rural area uh where there was spring water and I could grow my own food just seemed like a uh like a healthier way of of life so that that that was a a big piece of what sort of made me ready to make a change like that in my life and when I got involved in keeping a garden um well I was such a naive City kid that I had never really thought about the idea that like each vegetable would all be ready at the same time um so uh you know so when my when my you know row of cabbages were were all ready at about the same time um I thought to myself well I better learn how to make sauerkraut now I knew that I loved sauerkraut and even more than sauerkraut uh uh sour pickles uh uh uh fermented cucumber uh uh um uh uh garlic and Dill Pickles um uh which are which are really uh uh commonly found in in in New York City um and so I always was like drawn to this flavor of of of lactic acid but I had never done it myself so I mean I really just opened up a couple of cookbooks and saw the process it is incredibly incredibly simple to make sauerkraut um and uh you know I chopped up my cabbage I lightly salted it I squeezed it and mashed it a little bit to get it all juicy I stuffed it into an old Croc that I found uh in the barn in the community um and uh and I kind of got obsessed with uh with sauerkraut I mean probably you know at all times since then I've had some sauerkraut going um and then I started playing around with making yogurt and cheese making and uh making Elderberry wine and blueberry wine and blackberry wine and you know what we in Tennessee call Country wines um and then I started you know uh baking with a with a sourdough starter um and then I started investigating some uh you know more exotic ferments I learned how to make miso I learned how to make Tempe uh and it just became a sort of allout personal Obsession and my friends started uh calling me sandor kraut uh because I was I was always showing up with uh with w w with sauerkraut um and then I started getting invited to to to teach small workshops I uh I had some friends in Tennessee who were turning their family Homestead into a sort of Eco Education Center and they invited me to teach a sauerkraut making workshop and the first time I saw taught a sauerkraut making Workshop which was in uh uh 1998 15 years ago um what I learned is that there there is you know for those of us you know raised in the context of the war on bacteria and this idea that bacteria are so uh uh dangerous um there's a huge fear that many people have so um you know the the the the biggest question that came up that day and that has been sort of repeated to me hundreds of times through the workshops that I've done and through my website um you know is how can I be sure that I'm getting good bacteria growing and not bad bacteria you know uh what about botulism I don't want to kill my children um you know people are you know many people are just Paralyzed by fears like this um and uh you know basically I you know fermentation um you know because of this you know inevitability of microbial change in our food you know for people all over the world um people had to learn how to work with the presence of microorganisms on their food um because otherwise it would sort of decompose their food into something that nobody wants to put in their mouth so you know Millennia before you know we had the tools to identify specific microorganisms um you know people in every part of the world learned to work with these invisible life forces that are present um on on all food um and you know the Practical applications of fermentation you know beyond the most widespread form of fermentation which is the production of alcohol um which um you know is a is a Transcendent experience that um you know sort of was really has been used as a as as a Sacrament uh you know by by you know varied cultural Traditions really all around the world but but beyond alcohol you know the the Practical applications of fermentation are are food preservation I mean for us in the 21st century um we have a warped perspective on food preservation and we all have a fermentation slowing device in our kitchen that's what a refrigerator amounts to um but uh and and you know canning the idea of sterilizing food in a can I mean you know that was invented in France in the 1800s by Nicholas aler it's called alerz in in France but really like up until then you know there were basically you know three methods of food preservation uh known to humanity you know one would be drying one would be heavy salting to uh you know prevent microbial growth and the the the third would be fermentation so fermentation is just an incredibly important mode of preservation um uh you know sauerkraut the general idea of fermenting vegetables uh which really spread all across the Eurasian land mass and and and many other places you know particularly in tempered environments with limited growing Seasons this was how people could have the nutrients notably vitamin C that are that are you know primarily found in uh in in in plant foods that aren't available for much of the year um uh you know take a a highly perishable food like milk I mean it's hard for us to even imagine milk uh uh outside of the context of refrigeration and indeed fresh milk um you know what I imagine uh uh most of us grew up with is really a phenomenon of the 20th century and and the emergence of widespread Refrigeration um but but you know soured milk you know yogurt uh cfir um uh uh cheeses you know hard cheeses like that's a very stable form of milk that uh you know we might be used to putting it on a refriger in our refrigerator but you don't need to cured meats you know salamis you know this is a way to you know if you're a family that's been raising you know the pig that that that uh that Dario was uh uh um gutting this morning um you know that that's how you're going to preserve it if you don't have a freezer and a refrigerator is by is by curing the meat um so so there's a really practical application for uh um you know and and really not only for preservation I mean it's also certain foods uh are detoxified by fermentation you know they're they are they're poisonous or contain you know toxic compounds and the fermentation breaks those compounds down fermentation makes Foods more uh more digestible um uh uh and it gives them flavor like if you look around at you know gouret food stores anywhere in the world you know the foods that we Elevate on this pedestal uh and and and celebrate as as Gourmet Foods really the highest expressions of pretty much every culinary tradition are products of f fermentation so they create extraordinary flavors not always flavors that everybody can agree on um you know some of the flavors of fermentation or you know what we might call um acquired tastes um um you know okay so this is a pretty self- selected group like how many people in this room would identify with the idea you know the further away I can smell a cheese the more excited I am to eat it okay but okay so so even even for this self- selected group that is a minority um so you know sometimes I'll buy a piece of really stinky cheese and invite some friends over and like some of my friends will you know come into the door and be all excited to eat it and then other people will get to the door open the door and they'll say did something die in here and you know and they would never for a minute think about putting it into their mouths and you know all around the world there are examples of fermentation that uh you know people who grew up with them love to eat and and frequently people from outside uh uh uh the culture find them extremely uh uh inaccessible uh last night at dinner I was hearing about some of the um uh traditions of fermenting Meat and Fish uh uh on the on the Pharaoh Islands um uh and it sounds like that that that's certainly an example of that um when I've tried a a Swedish s struming that's a that's an example of that Japanese Nat uh that's an example of that um um but in a way these foods that that that that frequently uh people outside of the culture find um you know even repellent you know serve to reinforce cultural identity um uh because it is this sort of you know shared uh experience that that people who who share it recognize that most people outside of their group um have a hard time um uh uh uh uh sharing so so so so there's this so there's this disconnect um but increasingly you know what I've learned teaching about fermentation trying to demystify it and and Empower people with skills to make these incredibly easy and safe foods um uh is that people are getting interested in it for the perceived health benefits of fermented foods and and certainly you know fermentation transforms Foods nutritionally in in some in some dramatic ways I mean uh you know fermentation can be thought of as pre-digestion it breaks down dense compound nutrients into sort of simpler uh uh more element m al forms that that it's easier for our bodies to uh to um to assimilate it removes certain toxins from Foods it contributes additional nutrients you know a few of which um uh you know have have been investigated um and and these are like metabolic byproducts of specific microorganisms that that have turned out to have um you know extremely beneficial um uh uh qualities for for human beings but you know what I would say is the most uh uh profound nutritional benefit of fermented Foods is not really found in all fermented foods but it's it's in the fermented foods that haven't been cooked after their fermentation and that is the live bacterial cultures themselves and historically nobody ever had to think about replenishing or diversifying the bacteria in their gut but because we're living in the midst of the war on bacteria and more than an ideology it's it's chemical warfare it's you know antibiotic drugs um it's antibacterial cleansing products it's chlorine in the water I mean it's all of these compounds that are used specifically to kill bacteria and when we're ingesting these compounds and really even if you never take antibiotic drugs we all are ingesting antibiotic drugs because they're accumulating in the water table because of their heavy use um um but but but basically the the the gut bacteria in all of us are under continual assault and so you know in the 21st century much more than uh in in in times past it's become you know important to consciously replenish the bacteria in our our gut and one way people do that is little capsules called probiotics but because you know all of the you know greatest Delicacies of the world are products of fermentation there are lots of incredibly delicious bacterially rich foods and really a variety of bacterially rich foods is a much more effective probiotic than any single strain that somebody uh that somebody manufactures in a in in a capsule um so so there's this like there's this disconnect let me talk about one other uh uh uh disconnection and that is you know it's very exciting for me to be uh you know invited here um you know I I I I I am not a chef I live in a rural area I don't have many fine dining opportunities um uh but it's very exciting to me that um you know many chefs around the world are are are are getting more interested in practicing fermentation um in their restaurants but I get all this feedback uh you know both from people who are trying to start small local fermentation Enterprises um and also from s who are uh uh you know wishing to incorporate fermentation into the practices in their kitchen well that all of the you know because the central dogma of food safety at our in our historical moment is this idea that it's dangerous to eat food that sits sort of out for you know more than a few hours at temperatures above Refrigeration temperatures and um you know while while you know I I I I can appreciate the the general idea that you know keeping food under Refrigeration as long as possible in general is a is a healthy practice in a food service situation if it were intrinsically dangerous to eat food that had sat for more than 4 hours outside of refrigeration temperatures we wouldn't be sitting here talking today because our species never could have perpetuated itself because we've only had the ability to keep food at refrigerated temperatures for a couple of generations and really that and and then only in the most affluent parts of the world so um so you know many of the the the people attempting to sort of negotiate with their sort of inspectors um who are trying to enforce Health codes um uh you know that this is just a disconnect you know because because these Foods fall outside of sort of the central dogma of uh you know of of of food safety and how it is sort of frequently um uh uh um applied by by uh you know enforcement agents um so you know many food manufacturers uh trying to get into fermentation have to basically educ at their inspectors um you know some restaurants you know just try to make sure their inspectors don't notice the things that they're leaving out to ferment because really you know all ferments um you know occur in you know what the uh sort of food safety Dogma would would would describe as the is the danger zone um of of temperature so I I think that this is a really interesting disconnect that you know as fermented foods become you know more uh uh popular again um uh and and the production of them becomes more mainstreamed and and and uh disperses beyond the factories where they have been you know taking place in uh in in recent decades um you know I think we have to address this uh this this this disconnect so now I just want to talk for a moment about uh about reconnection um you know actually you know let me just back up and say one thing like I told you all that I tested HIV positive um I wrote on the back of wild fermentation that fermented foods have been important part of my healing many people have misinterpreted that and think that I said that uh you know I cured AIDS by eating sauerkraut and let me be very clear that that that I like I do not want to I mean I think that um you know there there there there are definitely some uh uh snake oil salesmen who are sort of you know trying to convince people that you know different specific fermented foods uh you know will cure different specific things you know there are anti-carcinogenic compounds in sauerkraut does that mean that if you're diagnosed with a brain tumor all you need to do is eat a big plate of sauerkraut every day I don't think so um you know our health exists in a much broader context I think you know these Foods as a group by uh by uh enabling us to improve digestion improve improve nutrient assimilation improve overall immune functioning that is huge um and uh you know for for you know someone suffering from a chronic disease process for someone with a a brand new Health crisis that that they're dealing with for someone who feels like they're the most strapping specimen walking the the Earth uh for someone who's just feeling the effects of Aging you know improving digestion and nutrient assimilation and immune functioning is amazing for anyone so so I think that there I I I I I I sincerely believe that that fermented foods are part of what keep me uh you know healthy and and and vibrant but I but I think that it's misguided to assume that they're going to be the cure for any specific uh uh disease process now I just want to talk for a moment about uh about reconnection I mean you know food is something that you know sort of connects us uh you know with Biology uh with with with with culture uh you know with with history uh you know with with desire it's the embodiment of of all these different things now the word fermentation comes from Latin fer which means to boil um and it's because the the the visible action of fermentation in liquids is Bubbles the same as the visible action of boiling and the word yeast comes from Greek Zestos which also means to boil so our our vocabulary fermentation is all about sort of it's It's analogy uh uh to to to heating food and and the bubbles that are created but there's a metaphorical uh uh connotation of the word fermentation and people talk about cultural ferment political ferment social ferment uh intellectual ferment uh spiritual ferment and and and really this is a metaphorical application of the same idea like the bubbles because when people get excited you know periods of change periods of excitement when people believe in change when people believe in uh you know ideas that get them excited they get bubbly um and when you feel bubbly about ideas that are that that are inspiring you and you you know you want to talk about them you want to share them so uh you know really what I want to leave you with is the idea that you know in addition to being you know this this uh you know amazing mode of food transfer that is used uh you know really in every part of the world you know that fermentation is also an important uh engine of social change so uh I thank you today and uh and let's uh have a have a great rest of the time